Crazy Horse living with Sicangu

[hreinn]

Miyelo wrote in the reply number 20 in the thread "Crazy Horse.... Miniconju...?"; "Iron Shell hunka´d Crazy Horse as his son and CH called Iron Shell "father"".
(http://amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=teton&action=display&thread=321&page=2)

As I understand this writing of Miyelo, Crazy Horse and Iron Shell were hunkabrothers.
At least they had some close personal connections.
As can be seen by what Miyelo wrote in the reply number 20 in the above mentioned thread; "Iron Shell had 29 sons, whom he called his "army" and from here Hollow Horn Bear, Crow Dog, Brave Bird etc came. Crazy Horse lived with these brothers for long time".
As can also be seen by what Kingsley Bray wrote in the reply number 10 in the same above mentioned thread; that Iron Shell and mother of Crazy Horse = Rattle Blanket Woman both came from the Miniconju Ashke band.

He Dog said that Crazy Horse lived with the Sicangu for about 1 year. But He Dog did not give any reason for this long visit and did not mention with whom Crazy Horse lived with, that is in what tent and who fed him for this long period of time.
Therefore it seems a little bit mysterious why Crazy Horse at the age of 15 moved away from the Oglala camp and lived with the Sicangu´s for about 1 year.

But a close personal connection between Iron Shell (a Sicangu) and young Crazy Horse, could explain the reason why the young (15 years old) Crazy Horse left the Oglala camp and lived with the Sicangu for about 1 year. This also explains with whom Crazy Horse stayed with and who fed him during this long visit. That is to say, Crazy Horse went with his hunkabrother Iron Shell who hosted young Crazy Horse for about 1 year.
This seems to be a more reasonable explanation than Crazy Horse going with and living with Spotted Tail.
Do you agree Kingsley Bray ?

If Iron Shell and Crazy Horse were hunkabrothers, I suggest the hunka ceremony occured following the Blue Water Massacre, that is in the timeframe autumn 1855 to summer 1856.
There are 2 possible circumstances for the coming together of Iron Shell and Crazy Horse during the above mentioned timeframe.
First, in the spring/summer 1856 when the Oglala and the Sicangu camps come together for a summer camp.
Second, Iron Shell could have arrived in the Oglala camp after the Blue Water Massacre (soon after or later). Because as Miyelo said in the reply number 20 in the above mentioned thread, that among the survivors of the Blue Water Massacre on the 3rd of September 1855 were one of Iron Shell wife with some children. She managed to escape and was harbored by some Oglala´s (who ? Worm = father of Curly Hair ?).
If Iron Shell came to the Oglala camp to see his wife, he could have stayed there for several days or several weeks. Iron Shell would have met Worm = Waglula = father of Curly Hair and later on Iron Shell and Worm could have agreed upon that Iron Shell and young Crazy Horse would be hunkabrothers.
When Iron Shell leaves the Oglala camp, the young Crazy Horse follows Iron Shell and stays with him and his familly for about 1 year.

Since Crazy Horse was a hunkabrother to Chip and then also a hunkabrother to Iron Shell, then it must have been okay for a person to have more than 1 hunkabrother at each given time.
Is that correct ?

Gudmundur Hreinn Sveinsson

[kingsleybray]

Some good points, Hreinn. I thought Miyelo's statement was very important to illuminate the relationship between Iron Shell and Crazy Horse. And I agree that the hunka relationship is likely connected to the teenage Crazy Horse's stay among the Brules in 1856-57. I'm fooling around with a few scenarios. Certainly if I get the opportunity to prepare a second edition of my Crazy Horse book, I will want to work Miyelo's evidence into that section.

Kingsley

[hreinn]

Kingsley: I hope you will get an opportunity to publish a second edition of your Crazy Horse book. I would definitely also buy a second edition of your masterpiece. It is amazing and enjoyable how your Crazy Horse book is loaded with information in a well written manner. Some would perhaps think it is easy to do so, but in the reality there are few (in every field) who are able to do so. It would be interesting to see what you would come up with regarding Crazy Horse and Iron Shell and the visit to Sicangu's. You have shown by examples that you are able to come up with interesting, thoughtful and reasonable explanations (for example your comments on Mari Sandoz assumptions).

The long visit of teenage Crazy Horse to Sicangu probably explains many of the Sicangu lodges at LBH camp in the summer 1876. It is known that some of Iron Shell's Sicangu's relatives were in the LBH camp, while the majority of the Sicangu's were not at LBH. This is because in the long visit of Crazy Horse to the Sicangu he probably established a long lasting personal connection with Iron Shell family and relatives.

There is one thing I didn't mention directly in the first post, but only weakly implied.
The first guess for the reason of a hunka relationship between Crazy Horse and Iron Shell, could be as a some kind of gratitude on the behalf of Iron Shell.
The reason could be as a gratitude towards Worm or his relatives in hosting Iron Shell's wife and children.
And/or as a gratitude for Worm acting as a Wicasa Wacan (holy man) in comforting and strengthening Iron Shell's wife and children after the horrible event at Blue Water.
And/or as a gratitude for the tenderness of the teenage Crazy Horse towards Iron Shell's children in the Oglala camp. Which is not out of the blue, since young Crazy Horse was known to be very nice to his younger brother and Black Elk said that Crazy Horse as an adult was nice to children.

It would be interresting to hear more about the relationship between Crazy Horse and Iron Shell from Iron Shell's relatives.

Miyelo: What excactly does "HUNKA'D" mean in the the context "Iron Shell hunka'd Crazy Horse as his son and CH called Iron Shell "father". More specifically what does the 'D means ? I guess it doesn't stand for "had", meaning ... hunka had.. . Trying to excuse myself: my first language is neither English nor Lakota.
Is it correctly understood that Crazy Horse and Iron Shell were hunkabrothers ?

Hreinn

[kingsleybray]

Well I don't want to pre-empt Miyelo's reply, but the implication is that Iron Shell adopted Crazy Horse as his hunka SON, rather than brother. Iron Shell was born about the year 1815, so he was 25 years older than Crazy Horse.

I would think that hunka BROTHERS would be the nature of the relationship between Crazy Horse and Horn Chips. Both types of ceremonial adoption could be performed. Also, mothers and sisters, since at least one authority indicates that more girls than boys were made hunka. Our gender-biased ethnologists just normalised the relationship as one typically between males!

Kingsley

[hreinn]

Okay. I was aware of the age of Iron Shell and therefore the age difference between Iron Shell and Crazy Horse. But I didn't know there were 2 different terms, that is hunkabrother versus hunkason. I thought hunkabrother would cover this type of relationship between males, independent of an age difference (similar to fosterbrothers in the viking culture).

Is a hunkason a different relationship than a hunkabrother ?

Hreinn

[shatonska]

Aug 25, 2009 15:22:48 GMT -5 hreinn said:

The long visit of teenage Crazy Horse to Sicangu probably explains many of the Sicangu lodges at LBH camp in the summer 1876. It is known that some of Iron Shell's Sicangu's relatives were in the LBH camp, while the majority of the Sicangu's were not at LBH

this is a very interesting point

[ladonna]

Aug 25, 2009 16:06:18 GMT -5 hreinn said:

Okay. I was aware of the age of Iron Shell and therefore the age difference between Iron Shell and Crazy Horse. But I didn't know there were 2 different terms, that is hunkabrother versus hunkason. I thought hunkabrother would cover this type of relationship between males, independent of an age difference (similar to fosterbrothers in the viking culture).

Is a hunkason a different relationship than a hunkabrother ?

Hreinn

Hunk is making of relatives, there is no difference between
hunk father- hunk mother-hunka brother- hunka sister-
hunka grandmother- hunka grandfather
Hunka is Hunka means more than blood it is a sacred adoption
one of our scared rites as people.

[miyelo]

hey all
gee I haven't been on here in awhile so much new stuff on the boards! Ladonna is correct. Basically you are made a relative to the family, but the hunka ceremony can be between two people making each other brothers, but you are ''adopted" into the whole family. It is a very serious thing and not to be taken lightly. I just used the word ''hunka-d" as like a past tense it is not really a word in english or lakota. Sorry bout that!
There were more Sicangus at LBH than people think, at least from what I hear living on Rosebud for the last year. There are so many relatives between Oglala and Sicangu that it makes perfect sense that Crazy Horse was back and forth. Back in the beginning of summer I was talking to an elder who works at a school here, he is related to Crazy Horse's second wife. He told me Crazy Horse ''stole her" and wanted her contrary to historical opinion. When he was killed and they were taking his body they had to stop up past Black Pipe/Norris where her father lived (this mans grandpa) to ask if he wanted to come with them to bury the body. He told them no as he was angry at Crazy Horse. He said they headed towards the Badlands. Just a new twist to the story!
Kingsley I can hook you up with some people here, but you already know Victor so I'm sure you are set. The Little Thunder's still have meetings about family stuff, and I work very closely with Bernadine Broken Leg who is related to Iron Shell, Spotted Tails, Little Thunders and she is a wealth of information.

[hreinn]

Just a small thought:

Miyelo wrote in the reply number 20 in the thread Crazy Horse.... Miniconju...?:
"Here is a cool fact she told me: there are old stories of how Iron Shell and Spotted Tail would take the young boys (Crazy Horse was one of them) to hunt and several times came across DINOSAURS. B says it must be true as there was a Lakota word for these creatures that has been handed down since the time they saw them out hunting."

amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=teton&action=display&thread=321&page=2

This experience and knowledge from the youth visit of Crazy Horse to Sicangu is probably the reason for what was later repeated after Crazy Horse by Alfred Ribman that "at his death his bones would turn to rock and his joints to flint" [see the Ribman quote on page 49 in To Kill An Eagle by Edward Kadlecek & Mabell Kadlecek].

But obviously Crazy Horse did not want his bones been turned into rock. Because Crazy Horse asked that "if anything happened to him and he died, his body should be painted with red war paint and then plunged into fresh water, anywhere, and his life would be restored". If not, "his spirit would still rise". [see page 49 in To Kill An Eagle by Edward Kadlecek & Mabell Kadlecek].

It would be interesting to know the Lakota word for dinosaurs and the meaning/thinking of the word.

[miyelo]

yeah you're right, I will ask her for the word.

[hreinn]

According to the New Lakota Dictionary by Ullrich (2008), the Lakhota word for a dinosaur is uŋkčéğila tĥaŋka.

Which I think can also be written in an easier version as unkcegila thanka.

The explanations for each word given by the New Lakota Dictionary are:
tĥaŋka = to be large, big, great in any way, significant.
uŋkčéğila = large mythical monster, water monster, large prehistoric animal (their fossilized remains are found in the Badlands and elsewhere on Lakota territory).