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Post by hreinn on May 8, 2020 8:54:46 GMT -5
Well done Clarence ! Great overview of the Council of 44 and very good and clear set-up ("format"). With additional input from other members this ends up as the best available overview of the Council of 44.
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Post by kingsleybray on May 8, 2020 10:38:42 GMT -5
I am a great admirer of Fr Powell's achievement in the landmark PEOPLE OF THE SACRED MOUNTAIN. However I think his reconstruction of the Chiefs' Renewal of 1864 is too idealised a representation. No source I'm aware of indicates that the Northern Cheyenne bands were on the central plains, between the Platte and Arkansas rivers, during the crisis summer of 1864. Upper Platte Agent John Loree in his annual report for 1864 stated that the Indians of his agency, and he specifies the Oglala and Brule Lakotas, and the Northern Cheyennes and Northern Arapahos, had spent the summer some 100 miles north of the emigrant trail on Powder river. If the Northern Cheyennes had travelled several hundred miles south to join the Dog Soldiers and Southern Cheyennes during their war against the Platte and Arkansas river trails, it would have had to register in (a) the official reports and (b) Cheyenne traditional accounts. George Bent's letters to Hyde treat those months in great detail, and he was in the Southern Cheyenne camps. Then recall how he describes the Northern Cheyennes when he meets them in early 1865 -- as strange and novel, their appearance wilder and more like the Lakota than the Southern Cheyennes with whom he was familiar.
Fr Powell references two sources for "The names and bands of the Chiefs at this 1864 renewing of the Council". One is a Bent letter that I have. The letter mentions a few chiefs active in 1864 and identifies them as Suhtai. It doesn't talk about the renewal at all. I haven't seen the other source, a Grinnell interview with Shell, dated August 9, 1911. But I think Fr Powell means that, like the Bent letter, it afforded him some clues into reconstructing the membership of the Chiefs' Council after 1864. This is how he used the other sources in this endnote, e.g. Wooden Leg, the Col HB Carrington papers, and the signatory lists to treaties in the 1860s -- as a means to reconstruct the Chiefs' council composition.
Fr Powell's dating of Chiefs' renewals is based on Grinnell's statement that the "last time they did it was in 1874". CHEYENNE INDIANS Vol. 1, p. 346. Because the normal term for the chiefs was ten years, he backdates renewals to 1834, 1844, 1854, and 1864. At PEOPLE OF THE SACRED MOUNTAIN Vol. 1, p. 626, endnote 5 he is explicit that "by implication, the earlier renewings of the Chiefs should have been held in 1864, 1854, 1844, and 1834" (my italics).
I think we are accumulating data that will help us to refine Fr Powell's breakthrough research. I know he would be the first to welcome a tighter focus on aspects of the Cheyenne story. We stand on the shoulders of giants.
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Post by Dietmar on May 8, 2020 10:55:09 GMT -5
Thank you, Kingsley, for clarifying that.
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Post by kingsleybray on May 8, 2020 16:45:58 GMT -5
At the Northern Cheyenne Reservation there were Chiefs' renewals in 1892, when Grasshopper became the Sweet Medicine Chief; 1900, when Two Moon, American Horse, Crazy Head, and Brave Bear were made Old Man Chiefs - American Horse (Northern Suhtai) became Sweet Medcine Chief; 1940, when Frank Waters was made Sweet Medicine Chief; and 1962. Frank Waters died in the latter year, the Sweet Medicine Bundle eventually was transferred to Willis Medicine Bull. (Fr Powell acted as interim, caretaker keeper.) Later in the 1960s Albert Tall Bull became the keeper.
Grasshopper was a descendant of High Back Wolf II. I think Frank Waters was a descendant of Grasshopper. it's interesting how the Chiefs' Bundle seems to run through the branches of that family. About band affiliations, Mooney's informants said that High Back Wolf I (killed 1833) was a Masikota, and that through his marriages (to a group of 'sisters') he helped create the Hevataniu (Hair Rope) band. I have some Oglala traditions which call High Back Wolf's band the White Paint band, a Lakota name or nickname. One Horn I (Miniconjou Lakota, died 1835) adopted High Back Wolf's children as his hunka children in 1827, a ceremonial adoptive relationship which enabled trade and gift exchange.
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Post by Dietmar on May 9, 2020 3:39:24 GMT -5
This is said to be Sweet Medicine Chief Grasshopper, taken from a photograph at the McCracken Library:
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Post by clarence on May 9, 2020 3:47:00 GMT -5
Wow so many new cues to update my diagram, thanks everybody! I'm really happy for incentivizing such a brainstorm! Little Wolf's figure has always been so controversial to me. Labelled as the best Cheyenne strategist by historians, he appeared to be mostly mistreated by his own people. I'm thinking about the Laramie Treaty circumstances recalled by Kingsley and the episode of his late arrival on the Little Bighorn when he was ostracized as a spy. Dietmar, the 1864 Renewal Ceremony is something complicated to focus. My original thought was it was held the same year, especially to replace the eight chiefs perished in the Massacre. Little Rock for example, was said to be elected in that occasion in 1864. If all you bards ( ) think it can work, till new evidences come to light, I'll reconfigure my model assuming a Summer election before Sand Creek (without northern bands as Bent stated) and a late 1869 Northern Cheyenne Ceremony following the Treaty talks, as Kingsley theorized. Moore claims Red Moon to be the successor of Black Kettle, becoming a Wutapiu by the marriage with Sioux Woman. Apparently Black Kettle's nephew White Shield succeded Red Moon as band lader. Possibly he was more appreciated by peace factions, having Red Moon got involved in the Red River War? The same Moore ("The Cheyenne Nation", White Shield's portrait, p. 226) identifies White Shield as "a leader of the Red Moon band". Kingsley, maybe I'm wrong but I have High Back Wolf I, Masikota by birth, as a Suhtai chief by marriage. I was aware Hevataniu (Hair Rope)generated through marriages between Suhtai men and Masikota women. Again Moore ("The Cheyenne Nation", p. 235) claims the term was inaugurated in 1828 to designate the group that moved on the Arkansas with Yellow Wolf to trade at Bent's Fort. I'm a bit disappointed not being able to find any picture of Grasshopper in a period like the reservation era when there should have been plenty of opportunities. Is Brave Bear the noted Little Bighorn hero? Wasn't he a Southern Cheyenne? Hope this helps Thanks Hreinn that's my purpose!
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Post by kingsleybray on May 10, 2020 8:48:26 GMT -5
I want to backtrack to a detail: I cited the list of Cheyenne chiefs and headmen, as of October 1865, who Lakota peace messenger Big Ribs was instructed to contact. One was Tall White Man. clarence pointed out that he was listed by Wooden Leg as a warrior society headsman in 1876, so unlikely to have been a Council Chief in 1865. I was going through the 1886 Tongue River Agency census and came across a cluster of three family heads, living in neighbouring households:
Old Tall White Man age 90 [born c. 1796] Tall White Man age 43 [born c. 1843] White Hawk age 38 [born c. 1848]
Tall White Man (the Elk society headsman) and White Hawk (leader of the small group of Cheyennes with Lame Deer's Miniconjou camp in spring 1877) were brothers.
So I opine that Old Tall White Man was their father or even grandfather or maybe an uncle. But the point is we have a senior Tall White Man, of the right age to have been a Council Chief in the 1860s. I think this helps confirm the Big Ribs document as a useful guide to Northern Cheyenne leadership in the 1860s. The other significant list to consider is Margaret Carrington's account of her husband's councils at Ft Phil Kearny on July 16th and September , 1866. Fr Powell used this in PEOPLE OF THE SACRED MOUNTAIN. Let's set it out here:
Black Horse ("the great chief of the Cheyennes") CHIEF Red Arm CHIEF Little Moon CHIEF Pretty Bear "prominent man" The Rabbit that Jumps CHIEF The Wolf that Lies Down CHIEF The Man that Stands alone on the Ground "prominent man" Dull Knife CHIEF Dead White Leg (i.e. Lame White Man) warrior society headsman Brave Soldier "prominent man" White Head (aka Gray Hair, Gray Head) CHIEF Bob Tail war party leader (i.e. Bobtail Horse?)
Black Horse was sick in September and did not participate in the September council. I'm not aware of later mentions of him. Did he die or retire from chieftainship in fall 1866? (And does this connect to the rise of Little Wolf?)
A small camp of Northern Cheyennes, six lodges, was visiting the Mandan tribe in summer 1866. Spotted Elk is named as their chief. He is listed in the Big Ribs document.
Treaty records indicate that Cut Nose was also a Northern Cheyenne Council chiefs in 1866, as was Turkey Leg.
Synthesising:
Black Horse Old Bear Dull Knife Gray Hair
seem to be grouped as leading chiefs of the Northern Cheyennes in the years 1857-66. Could they be Old Man Chiefs in the Northern Cheyenne council?
To be added to them as probable Council Chiefs as of 1865-66:
Old Spotted Wolf Flake Foot Double Head White Clay Spotted Elk Little Wolf Big Head Little Bear Bear Wolf Tall White Man Old Brave Wolf (aka Box Elder) Red Arm Little Moon Jumping Rabbit Wolf Lies Down Turkey Leg
The above we find in contemporary records as Chiefs or probable Chiefs. Fr Powell synthesising from other sourcesadds:
Painted Thunder Black Moccasin (aka Limber Lance) Black Moccasin II (aka Iron) Old Wolf High Back Wolf III (killed at Platte Bridge 1865) Crazy Head Short Hair Big Wolf Spotted Wolf the younger Cut Foot Bald Bear
Some of these seem a bit problematic -- both Spotted Wolfs? But that's for discussion!
Great picture detail of Grasshopper, Dietmar . . . do we have the rest of the image?
Grasshopper by the way is a prime example of the ambiguities in all this stuff. Little Wolf wanted Sun's Road, a distant kinsman, to assume his seat in the Chiefs' Council at the 1892 renewal on the Northern Cheyenne Reservation. Sun's Road seems to have become a Chief, but he did not want to assume the keepership of the Chiefs' Bundle which he believed was contaminated because Little Wolf had killed a fellow Cheyenne. Grasshopper assumed responsibility of the Bundle --- Raises a lot of questions.
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Post by Dietmar on May 10, 2020 9:46:03 GMT -5
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Post by kingsleybray on May 10, 2020 9:48:26 GMT -5
thanks Dietmar, what an incredible picture
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Post by Dietmar on May 11, 2020 3:13:43 GMT -5
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Post by gregor on May 11, 2020 3:37:50 GMT -5
Hi Dietmar interesting letter. The Buffalo Bill Center gives this transcription (as you will know :-) ) [Letterhead for]Department of Interior Sioux Commission Pine Ridge Agency, June 28, 1889 To Whom it may concern: The bearer under the name of Walking Woman was given a paper by Gen. ?? in 1868 which was renewed by Senator Allison in 1876. She is the daughter of High Wolf a Cheyenne Chief and deserves kind treatment from all white men. George Crook [signed] Major General U.S.A. Fort Robinson, Aug. 31st 1889 The bearer wishes to transfer this paper to her son in order that he may get any benefit which the above paper would give him. George Crook [signed] Maj. Gen. U.S.A. I think the missing Name of the "General ??" is Harney.
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Post by Dietmar on May 11, 2020 3:53:30 GMT -5
The letter probably has to do with the fact that Grasshopper left Pine Ridge in 1888 and 1889 without permission in the direction of Tongue River to lead sun dances and that there was trouble with the Indian agents because of this. Wait,... I also found this comment at McCracken: "An original June 28, 1889 hand written document (now in three fragile pieces) of Major General George Crook at the Pine Ridge Agency given to Walking Woman, daughter of Cheyenne chief High Wolf, attesting that she had received in 1868 a letter, previously renewed in 1876 by Sen. Allison, notifying white men to give her kind treatment. This same letter was added to on August 31, 1889 by Gen. Crook at Fort Robinson transferring the benefits of the letter to her son. The original Gen. Crook letter was later typed as a “true copy” by 2nd Lt. F.C. Marshau of the 8th Cavalry, who inserted the name of the son, Grasshopper, into his typescript copy. These two letters, the Crook letter and the Marshau typed copy, are accompanied by notes explaining some of the letter’s history of distribution, and speculating that the original 1868 letter may have been related to the attack on Black Kettle’s village along the Washita River by Gen. Custer’s troops in November of that year. Volume of the collection is one folder. Photocopies on archival paper included." mccrackenlibrary.pbworks.com/w/page/11088550/Guide%20to%20the%20CollectionsBtw, we had a High Wolf as a Northern Cheyenne delegate in 1879, I wonder if he is also a relative/descendant of the High Wolf dynasty: amertribes.proboards.com/thread/2970/1879-northern-cheyenne-delegation
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Post by kingsleybray on May 11, 2020 10:24:19 GMT -5
Walking Woman must have been given the original letter by Gen. W S Harney when he was serving as a treaty commissioner with the Indian Peace Commission of 1867-68. As a young lieutenant, Harney had met High Back Wolf I at the 1825 treaty councils on the Missouri. When he served as treaty commissioner he gave a fine horse to Black Kettle, observing that Black Kettle was a son of High Back Wolf. I presume in an extended family sense. So it's interesting how he took interest also in High Back Wolf's daughter Walking Woman.
All the High Wolfs must be connected but not necessarily in a straight father - son - grandson line of descent. Does anyone know if the family was related to Little Wolf in some way? I'm trying to refine my thoughts on how and when Little Wolf became a chief.
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Post by clarence on May 11, 2020 13:15:31 GMT -5
I updated the scheme with all new hints, principally adding Tall White Man (touché) and replacing Black Moccasin with Gray Head as an earlier Old Man Chief.
Kingsley, checking your Apr 28, 2016 at 10:16am Big Ribs' post seems clear his peace mission touched various villages involviong northern and Southern Lakota bands. Why couldn't be the same for Cheyenne bands too? Alongside Northern Cheyennes we find Dog Soldiers leaders. I tend to read Little Bear and Man Stands in the Water as southeners names, as well as Big Head, who could be the Hownowa leader captured by Custer on the Texas Panhandle.
About the Bob Tail cited by Margaret Carrington, I would exclude being the same as Bobtail Horse. The Northern Elk Horn Scrapers warrior of Little Bighorn fame and late time Council Chief was born in 1850.
Concerning the Sweet Medicine Chief charge, Sun Road accepted the office but chose not to accept the actual Sweet Medicine bundle from Little Wolf. “I didn’t want to say it,” Sun Road later admitted, “but he wears that medicine over his shoulder slung under his left arm. I think it has begun to smell.” The council considered doing away with the Sweet Medicine bundle, but Chief Grasshopper stepped up and accepted the bundle from Little Wolf.
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Post by hreinn on May 11, 2020 13:15:42 GMT -5
The democractic elegance of Council of 44 can best be seen if we do some calculations and comparision. Calculations: We have to calculate the index "representatives per million" (rpm) on the national level. High value for the rpm index, means more representatives per million of the nation. Which means more democracy. For the Cheyenne the index is between 9778 - 13333 rpm. Based on total population of 3300 to 4500 persons. To get rpm number which is easy to remember, let's assume a total population of 4400 Cheyenne, which gives 10000 rpm (ten thousand rpm). This is a relatively low rpm estimate. Comparison: Big blocks today (300-500 million people): United States of America (USA) .... 2 rpm European Union (EU) ................... 2 rpm Big nations (50-100 million people): Germany ....................................... 8 rpm France .......................................... 14 rpm Italy ............................................. 16 rpm Great Britain .................................. 23 rpm Small nations (5-10 million people): Norway ......................................... 31 rpm Denmark ....................................... 31 rpm Sweden ......................................... 34 rpm Finland .......................................... 36 rpm Very small nations (less than 1 million): Iceland ........................................ 175 rpm Liechtenstein ................................ 648 rpm CHEYENNE ................................. 10000 rpm As a rule of thumb, the smaller the nation, the larger value of the index rpm, which means more democracy. So Cheyenne were more democratic than most or all nations today ! Talking about progress ?
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