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Post by grahamew on Oct 8, 2019 12:15:44 GMT -5
Hmmm.
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Post by carlo on Oct 8, 2019 13:18:22 GMT -5
This page of a ledger book in 'A Song for the Horse Nation: Horses in Native American Cultures' (Fulcrum Publishing, 2006) indicates that His Fight and his brothers Hawk Man and Sitting Bear were sons of Long Soldier: This was penned down by Decost Smith, who met His Fight at Standing Rock in 1884. While Hawk Man and Sitting Bear were indeed Long Soldier’s sons, Smith believed that he was also His Fight’s father, but this is incorrect—at least in the Euro-American sense. It is probable that Long Soldier was an uncle on his mother’s side, and therefore also known as ‘father’ in Lakota kinship terms.
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Post by grahamew on Oct 9, 2019 11:22:57 GMT -5
This Long Soldier, the man responsible for two variants of a Winter Count? www.ipevolunteers.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Lakota-Winter-Count-Additional-Information.pdfdrive.google.com/file/d/1s6ewG0xccwx4M4oVVr2j4H4tQ3vP_HNm/viewI'd always read that the man pictured BELOW was a Gros Ventre. Now I'm beginning to wonder. On the back of this photo is written: ""Long Soldier - Sioux" and "Long Soldier / Sioux Giant". The Photograph carries the impressed mark of the famous Dakota Territory photographer David F. Barry and is unmounted." www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ca1900-native-american-sioux-indian-1825706608The copy at Denver Public Library has this penciled on glass plate: "Over 7 feet tall Sioux giant" (?); Photoprint cropped; printed by D.F. Barry at later date. Title penciled on glass plate. R7001004748 If he is Lakota, he's not the same man, unless his lips have shrunk within the six-eight years between photos, but I recall the Lakota Long Soldier being referred to as very tall and there is another Barry photo of this Long Soldier standing next to a white man (Barry himself, I think) and towering over him and another with officers and their wives at Fort Abraham Lincoln, where, again, he seems considerably taller than the others present. Of course, anybody can write anything on the back of a photo and mis-identification is part of the game; the fact it's on the glass plate makes it interesting, although the DPL has been wrong before... Of course, there are Long Soldiers still living at Standing Rock and a district around Fort Yates named for him
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Post by Californian on Oct 9, 2019 14:18:40 GMT -5
hi Gregor nice to hear from you. You are absolutely correct that this one is a Palmquist and Jürgens photograph - actually one of several. Leslie Smith I found out was the older brother of the artist, DeCost Smith and in a way I doubt that Leslie would have been the creator of the photograph anyway - in those days there were no amateur photographers as the equipment was bulky, complicated and cumbersome to manipulate. I truly believe that this was an image Leslie Smith obtained from somewhere and gave to his brother to use as a template for the painting. There is really NIL resemblance with the man in painting to the known and authenticated photographs of Jaw. Hi Californian, the second Photograph of One Bull was shot bei Palmquist & Jurgens (St. Paul) in March 1884. Up to now, I have never seen a Photograph of One Bull by a Leslie Smith. Greetings from Germany, Gregor
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Post by Californian on Oct 9, 2019 14:30:20 GMT -5
thank you both, Dietmar and Carlo. The source material that I have available on Jaw does not mention (Frances Densmore's "Teton Music", Col. A.B. Welch's Dakota Papers and Josephine Waggoner's Witness: A Húŋkphapȟa Historian's Strong-Heart Song Of The Lakotas”) anything about his father other that he supposedly was from the Sans Arc /Itázipčho band. Long Soldier would have been too well known to not have been mentioned in any of these sources. This page of a ledger book in 'A Song for the Horse Nation: Horses in Native American Cultures' (Fulcrum Publishing, 2006) indicates that His Fight and his brothers Hawk Man and Sitting Bear were sons of Long Soldier: This was penned down by Decost Smith, who met His Fight at Standing Rock in 1884. While Hawk Man and Sitting Bear were indeed Long Soldier’s sons, Smith believed that he was also His Fight’s father, but this is incorrect—at least in the Euro-American sense. It is probable that Long Soldier was an uncle on his mother’s side, and therefore also known as ‘father’ in Lakota kinship terms.
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Post by gregor on Oct 10, 2019 1:28:08 GMT -5
These 2 "Long Soldiers" are definitely different men. Somewhere I read - if I recall this correct - that the man in the 2nd Photograph was an Arikara or Arapaho Scout at Fort Abraham Lincoln. I have to look up my Archive.
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Post by grahamew on Oct 10, 2019 5:26:42 GMT -5
As I said, I'd read that he was Gros Ventre. The inscription on the glass plate makes me wonder, however. They're definitely not the same man, however, whichever tribe he's from. I wonder if the name is more of a nickname because of his height.
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Post by Dietmar on Oct 10, 2019 7:25:57 GMT -5
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Post by carlo on Oct 10, 2019 14:37:43 GMT -5
Yes, the more famous Lakota Long Soldier was a Hunkpapa headman and winter count keeper. (There was also an Oglala named Long Soldier btw.)
His Fight’s father was indeed an Itazipco man, who after marriage went to live among his wife’s people the Hunkpapas. According to Densmore, the name Jaw was bestowed on His Fight by his white brother-in-law.
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Post by Californian on Oct 15, 2019 17:45:35 GMT -5
the chapter pertaining to Jaw in Frances Densmore's Teton Sioux Music [1918] which contains some biographical details - extracted & modified:
The man who gave the material in the next succeeding pages is commonly known as Jaw (Cehu'pa), a name which he received from a white brother-in-law. His childhood name was Ma'za-ho'waste (Loud-sounding Metal), and at the age of 17 he was given the name of Oki'cize-ta'wa (His Battle), which is his true name at the present time. He was given this name after taking part in a fight for the first time. He had been out with a war party once before and had stolen horses, but this was his first experience in actual warfare. On being asked his connection in the tribe, he replied: "I am of two bands. My mother was a Gi'gilas'ka, a division of the Hunkpa'pa band, and my father was a Sans Arc, of the Te'tonan." He said that he was 63 years of age at that time (1913), and when asked the year of his birth, he said that he was born in the year known as Ke woyu'spa ta wani'yetu, 'winter that Turtle Catcher died.' On consulting the picture calendar this year was found to be 1850 [Census records 1885-1924 consistently record his birth year as ca. 1853].
As a further test of his memory Jaw was asked to name several succeeding years of the picture calendar of the Standing Rock Sioux. He did this with accuracy except for a different naming of one year. On reaching the name of his seventh year he added, "that was the year I killed the bird." In explanation of this he said that the people were moving camp and he was with his grandmother, who had taken care of him since his infancy, when his mother died. He said, "I killed the bird and took it to my grandmother." "If I killed many she would carry them all, and when we camped at night she would eat my hunting, and I would eat some too." He said that his father first called him Ma'za-ho'waste when he killed the bird. His name before that time is not recorded. In his young manhood Jaw was known especially for his success in stealing horses from the enemy. In addition to his narratives of expeditions for this purpose he gave general information concerning war customs. Among other things he recalled that in the old days each warrior carried his own wooden bowl, hung by a cord from his belt. It is said that "A man on the warpath always ate and drank from his own dish. When he returned home the dish was put away with other articles which he used on the warpath and sweet grass was put with it."
Jaw's manner of painting himself and his horse when going on the warpath was as follows: He painted a red crescent over his mouth, the points of the crescent extending upward halfway to his cheekbones. His hands were painted red from the wrists and his feet from the ankles. A large crescent like that on his face was painted on his horse's chest, and a smaller one on the animal's left hip, while the entire end of the horse's nose was painted yellow. If a horse succeeded in some difficult undertaking it was his custom to reward the animal by putting a feather in its mane or tail, or a band of red listcloth around its neck.
Jaw had two medicine bags containing the same 'medicine,' one for his horse and one for himself. The horse's medicine bag was tied to the bit of its bridle. He said that if his horse "had a headache" he chewed a certain herb and put it into the horse's mouth, whereupon the trouble was relieved at once. This was probably the herb numbered 4 in the component parts of his war 'medicine.' Jaw said that when going to steal horses he often went to windward of them and chewed this herb, at which the horses at once "pricked up their ears,'' being attracted by it.
When on the warpath, Jaw carried a leather pouch containing vermilion paint mixed with grease, for applying to his face and body. On his shoulder be wore a wolf skin, to the nose of which was tied his war whistle and to this whistle was fastened the medicine bag, which he tied to his horse's bridle when on the warpath. According to Jaw, these medicine bags contained a mixture of four herbs, dried and powdered. It was said that they could be used singly, as indicated, or in combination, as in his war medicine, which had power as a charm in addition to its efficacy as a curative agency.
Jaw said that before any important undertaking he smoked a certain pipe in a ceremonial manner and "offered prayers to Wakan'tanka." Instead of attempting to describe this, he enacted it for the writer as follows:
(1) With the bowl of the pipe in his left hand and the stem in his right hand he held the pipe upright in front of and close to his body, saying rapidly in a low tone: ''Wakan'tanka, behold this pipe, behold it. I ask you to smoke it. I do not want to kill anybody, I want only to get good horses. I ask you to help me. That is why I speak to you with this pipe."
(2) Changing the position of his hands, placing his left hand on the stem of the pipe and holding the bowl in his right hand, he pointed the stem toward his left shoulder, saying: Now, wolf, behold this pipe. Smoke it and bring me many horses."
(3) He then placed his right hand once more on the stem of the pipe and his left hand on the bowl, and pointing the stem upward and forward holding the pipe level with his face, he said: "Wakan' tanka, behold this pipe. I ask you to smoke it. I am holding it for you. Look also at me."
(4) After placing the stem of the unlighted pipe in his mouth (still holding the bowl in his left hand) again he said, "Wakan'tanka, I will now smoke this pipe in your honor. I ask that no bullet may harm me when I am in battle. I ask that I may get many horses."
(5) Having elevated the pipe as in section 3, he lighted and smoked it, holding it firmly in both hands. Then he said (referring to his participation in the Sun-dance): "Wakan'tanka, behold this pipe and behold me. I have let my breast be pierced. I have shed much blood. I ask you to protect me from shedding more blood and to give me long life ." [Jaw bore scars on his chest and back, also small scars the entire length of his arms, showing that he fulfilled his Sun-dance vow.]
When this ceremonial act was completed Jaw filled another pipe, which was one that he commonly used, and smoked it. He said: "It is the office of a certain pipe that it be smoked in making a request of Wakan'tanka. I always did what I have now enacted for you, and my blood was never shed after I took part in the Sun-dance. This was because I asked Wakan'tanka to give me success."
When the war party came near the camp of the enemy they waited for night in order to make their attack under cover of darkness. When night came the object of the expedition was carried out. Under cover of darkness Jaw succeeded in capturing on this occasion 70 horses. In referring to this exploit he said: “I did not waken nor kill any of the Crows; I just took their horses. No Sioux ever took more horses than that in one night.” As Jaw and his party approached their village they gave the long wolf howl, at which the people came out to meet them.
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Post by Californian on Oct 17, 2019 12:10:36 GMT -5
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Post by Californian on Oct 19, 2019 14:49:50 GMT -5
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Post by raymen85 on Dec 22, 2020 9:24:40 GMT -5
Hi all, this is the Leslie Smith photograph taken of His Fight in 1884 when Leslie traveled with his brother DeCost Smith. It's in the De Cost Smith photograph collection at the National Museum of the American Indian (P14649).
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Post by Dietmar on Dec 22, 2020 9:39:08 GMT -5
Welcome raymen85,
and thanks for sharing the photo!
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Post by carlo on Dec 22, 2020 12:31:59 GMT -5
Great to see the photo that DeCost Smith based his drawing on, hadn't seen this before.
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