|
|
Post by gregor on Jun 30, 2019 8:43:21 GMT -5
Just read two - some kind of term – papers of
Lorraine F. Garcia, who claims to be a Chihene Nde Historical Recorder and of
Maurice Shortt, who claims to be a Chihene Nde Historian.
Both say among other things essentially that
“… the Chihene Nde Nation of New Mexico stand by their ancestral identity of being indigenous to Southern New Mexico … the areas in which they resided when the Chiricahuas and Mescaleros came into their lands was called Apacheria. Apacheria was the name given to the Chihenne by their ancient neighbors the Zuni…” and they reject Fort Sill Apache historian Michael Darrow claims that the Chihenne is one of the Chiricahua bands.
They go on saying “ … [that ] from the Chihenne perspective and oral history: they did not migrate from Alaska or Canada as the Chiricahuas are documented to have done.”
Shortt states in support of the Chihenne being indigenous: “ …. The three cultures, the Mogollon, Hohokam and Mimbres, they were all present at this single location [meaning: Canada Alamosa / Ojo Caliente] and … the intersection of these three cultures created the Chihenne people.”
So, what do you think? Are Chihenne people Chiricahua or not?
Could not find further information on Garcia and Shortt.
|
|
|
|
Post by coeurrouge on Jun 30, 2019 14:30:28 GMT -5
I alaways understand that all the bedonkohes, chokonens and Nednis were originated from the Chihennes. And thaht ojo caliente was the sacred land of the Chihennes but also to the other bands of Chiricahuas.
I think they were Chiricahuas because they spoke exactly the same language,The mescaleros and Western Apaches had some difference in their language.
Do not forget the mixed gota (Bedonkohes-Chihennes)of Mangas Coloradas existing eraly in the 19e century.
|
|
natethegreat
Full Member
Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
|
Post by natethegreat on Jul 3, 2019 15:31:48 GMT -5
The Chihenne have been known as a band of the Chiricahua Apache since the Spanish expeditions in the 1500s. Historians say that the Athabaskan people's migrated from northwest Canada between the 1400 and 1500, right after the sudden disappearance of the mesa civikization. It's very possible that the jicarilla, mescalero, and lipan apache are descendants of the mesa culture, while the Navajo and chiricahua migrated into the area. This is very interesting
|
|
|
|
Post by jasper4 on Jul 19, 2019 13:05:26 GMT -5
Just read two - some kind of term – papers of Lorraine F. Garcia, who claims to be a Chihene Nde Historical Recorder and of Maurice Shortt, who claims to be a Chihene Nde Historian. Both say among other things essentially that “… the Chihene Nde Nation of New Mexico stand by their ancestral identity of being indigenous to Southern New Mexico … the areas in which they resided when the Chiricahuas and Mescaleros came into their lands was called Apacheria. Apacheria was the name given to the Chihenne by their ancient neighbors the Zuni…” and they reject Fort Sill Apache historian Michael Darrow claims that the Chihenne is one of the Chiricahua bands. They go on saying “ … [that ] from the Chihenne perspective and oral history: they did not migrate from Alaska or Canada as the Chiricahuas are documented to have done.” Shortt states in support of the Chihenne being indigenous: “ …. The three cultures, the Mogollon, Hohokam and Mimbres, they were all present at this single location [meaning: Canada Alamosa / Ojo Caliente] and … the intersection of these three cultures created the Chihenne people.” So, what do you think? Are Chihenne people Chiricahua or not? Could not find further information on Garcia and Shortt. I have heard the tales of these women. Mr Darrow is the son of Ms. Ruey Darrow and been historian long time. These so called persons are trying to get validation. Or to the point consider the source, Chihenne are the known as the eastern band of chiricahua. |
|
|
|
Post by Californian on Jul 20, 2019 20:40:34 GMT -5
The Mesa Verde culture are Anasazi and are believed to have been descendants from the earliest inhabitants of the region going back thousands of years (Clovis culture). The Athabascans are far more recent having arrived in the Southwest about 500 to 600 years ago - stating that the Apaches, an Athabascan people, are descendants from the Mesa Verde people is wrong.
|
|
|
|
Post by gregor on Jul 21, 2019 3:04:54 GMT -5
I agree! But I was surprised to read the above "theories" from people who claim to be "Chihenne Nde Historians"
|
|
natethegreat
Full Member
Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
|
Post by natethegreat on Jul 26, 2019 3:51:52 GMT -5
The Mesa Verde culture are Anasazi and are believed to have been descendants from the earliest inhabitants of the region going back thousands of years (Clovis culture). The Athabascans are far more recent having arrived in the Southwest about 500 to 600 years ago - stating that the Apaches, an Athabascan people, are descendants from the Mesa Verde people is wrong. That clears it up. |
|
|
|
Post by jasper4 on Aug 7, 2019 10:10:12 GMT -5
Just read two - some kind of term – papers of Lorraine F. Garcia, who claims to be a Chihene Nde Historical Recorder and of Maurice Shortt, who claims to be a Chihene Nde Historian. Both say among other things essentially that “… the Chihene Nde Nation of New Mexico stand by their ancestral identity of being indigenous to Southern New Mexico … the areas in which they resided when the Chiricahuas and Mescaleros came into their lands was called Apacheria. Apacheria was the name given to the Chihenne by their ancient neighbors the Zuni…” and they reject Fort Sill Apache historian Michael Darrow claims that the Chihenne is one of the Chiricahua bands. They go on saying “ … [that ] from the Chihenne perspective and oral history: they did not migrate from Alaska or Canada as the Chiricahuas are documented to have done.” Shortt states in support of the Chihenne being indigenous: “ …. The three cultures, the Mogollon, Hohokam and Mimbres, they were all present at this single location [meaning: Canada Alamosa / Ojo Caliente] and … the intersection of these three cultures created the Chihenne people.” So, what do you think? Are Chihenne people Chiricahua or not? Could not find further information on Garcia and Shortt. hohokam were around present day sedona. And the pueblo or mesa verde group are from the old ones aka anasazi which traditional pueblos care not for the name. |
|
natethegreat
Full Member
Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
|
Post by natethegreat on Aug 8, 2019 5:06:35 GMT -5
The Mogollan in mimbres and hohokam people are definitely ancient Apaches
|
|
|
|
Post by jasper4 on Aug 14, 2019 13:40:59 GMT -5
The Mogollon in mimbres and hohokam people are definitely ancient Apaches Hohokam culture, prehistoric North American Indians who lived approximately from 200 to 1400 ce in the semiarid region of present-day central and southern Arizona, largely along the Gila and Salt rivers. The term Hohokam is said to be Pima for “those who have vanished.” and mogollon and mimbres ae both old cultures. mongollon band of nde totally different as well mimbreno is not mimbres. source google |
|
|
|
Post by penjady on Aug 20, 2019 9:23:04 GMT -5
The Chi'nde people are not Chiricahua!! Truth.
The only true Chiricahua are Chu'konende... Chi'ende are their own people. Nde'dan'de' are their own people. Bed'on'konde are their own people. Even within the Chiricahua band structure, which there are many, the Chiricahua are Chiricahua.
With that said, they have more in common than most. They are similiar with language, culture and family system that matches about 90-95%.
To this day, there are some older folks who identify with just their specific band and would be offended if you would call them Chiricahua.
|
|
