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Post by chicheman on Mar 17, 2019 6:04:50 GMT -5
Hello,
somebody made me aware of the grave markers or memorial markers of both Cochise and Tom Jeffords (I guess nobody knows where Cochise exactly is buried). Both men are said to have become close friends.
But there is a statement that sounds questionable, and that is the inscription on the markers that says they were "Blood Brothers". As is also stated in that book "Blood Brothers" by Elliot Arnold (and I guess it was the book used for the famous film Broken Arrow).
The question is: was there ever a Blood Brother rite among the Nde ? I think I never heard of such a thing among any tribe in North America. This is said to have been something that was practiced by some ancient Germanic tribe or tribes, probably more than 1500 years ago.
Anyway, I found a statement by Asa Daklugie in Eve Ball´s "Indeh -An Apache Odyssey" :
"I have read this book (Blood Brother). You say that a novel need not tell the truth. That I understand, but the writer did know a good bit about my people. Why, then did he invent a blood brother rite ? He must have invented it, for in all my life I never heard of such a ceremony."
Any comments are most appreciated.
Thanks and greetings from Germany.
chicheman
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Post by ouroboros on Mar 17, 2019 9:14:59 GMT -5
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Post by chicheman on Mar 17, 2019 9:29:10 GMT -5
Thanks ouroboros for your reply and informations. That goes in the same direction, that this blood brother thing is fiction. With Asa Daklugie we have a most trustful source anyway, he lived the old life when he was young and so many elders around him were still alive, a thing like blood brother would not have gone unnoticed, if it had ever existed, by him or other´s his age.
Thanks and best chicheman
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natethegreat
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Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
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Post by natethegreat on Mar 17, 2019 15:13:29 GMT -5
It was common for two warriors to take an oath to die together and never leave the other to die alone. During the Nez Perce War, at the battle of the Big Hole, two of the young men who killed the Idaho settlers and started the war were fighting the soldiers. One of them died during the first cavalry charge and the other one regrouped with the survivors and told them he was going to keep his oath. He then advanced by himself straight at the soldiers trench firing his rifle was was gunned down.
As far as Cochise and Tom Jeffords. I think the Blood Brother thing is being a little over dramatic. Jeffords was the supervisor of a overland mail station and decided to walk into the Cochise Stronghold to ask Cochise to not attack his mail riders. Cochise thought Jeffords had strong medicine to be so bold to come in to his stronghold by himself. A friendship was started. Jeffords also helped General O.O. Howard to talk with Cochise and establish a reservation in return for Cochise to stop the attacks by his warriors, which was relatively successful. Finally, Jeffords was there with Cochise during his last night on earth. They had a good friendship, but Blood Brothers is going a bit too far. I'd say thats just a story.
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Post by chicheman on Mar 17, 2019 15:22:52 GMT -5
Thank you natethegreat, for some details and that´s what I think as well, story made up and just may be meant symbolic by that author. Interesting to learn some things of the Nez Perce war in connection about the relationship of two warriors acting like brothers. Best chicheman
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Post by dT on Mar 17, 2019 22:16:12 GMT -5
It's really too bad that Tom Jeffords never wrote an account of his dealings with Cochise. It would have been invaluable.
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Post by chicheman on Mar 19, 2019 13:35:15 GMT -5
Yes, that would be of great value, dt. He was one of the few white eyes who kept his word towards Apaches and was a friend to them, so he would have handed down authentic information sure I think.
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Post by a guest on Mar 20, 2019 9:54:50 GMT -5
Jeffords was the supervisor of a overland mail station and decided to walk into the Cochise Stronghold to ask Cochise to not attack his mail riders. Cochise thought Jeffords had strong medicine to be so bold to come in to his stronghold by himself. Daklugie in Eve Ball´s "Indeh - An Apache Odyssey": "There are stories of Jeffords having gone boldly to Cochise's stronghold alone. That is not as the Apaches know it. They say that Jeffords was captured by Cochise's scouts, but that he exhibited no fear. The Apaches were so impressed by his courage that instead of killing him they took him to Cochise." |
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natethegreat
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Long live the Indigenous Tribes of North America
Posts: 117
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Post by natethegreat on Mar 24, 2019 15:04:41 GMT -5
Jeffords was the supervisor of a overland mail station and decided to walk into the Cochise Stronghold to ask Cochise to not attack his mail riders. Cochise thought Jeffords had strong medicine to be so bold to come in to his stronghold by himself. Daklugie in Eve Ball´s "Indeh - An Apache Odyssey": "There are stories of Jeffords having gone boldly to Cochise's stronghold alone. That is not as the Apaches know it. They say that Jeffords was captured by Cochise's scouts, but that he exhibited no fear. The Apaches were so impressed by his courage that instead of killing him they took him to Cochise." I would like to know more about the Cochise - Jeffords relationship. I find it hard to believe that Jeffords wanted to talk to Cochise so he walked into the stronghold to be captured on purpose. Its far more believeable that Cochise's men tracked Jeffords and he surrendered without a fight. The issue of asking Cochise not to attack the mail riders probably came up towards the end of Jeffords first visit with Cochise. Does anyone have any more information? |
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Nahi
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Post by Nahi on Jun 2, 2019 14:26:52 GMT -5
Jeffords was the supervisor of a overland mail station and decided to walk into the Cochise Stronghold to ask Cochise to not attack his mail riders. Cochise thought Jeffords had strong medicine to be so bold to come in to his stronghold by himself. Daklugie in Eve Ball´s "Indeh - An Apache Odyssey": "There are stories of Jeffords having gone boldly to Cochise's stronghold alone. That is not as the Apaches know it. They say that Jeffords was captured by Cochise's scouts, but that he exhibited no fear. The Apaches were so impressed by his courage that instead of killing him they took him to Cochise." Tom Jeffords was in charge of the supervision of the Southern Overland and after the loss of fourteen men and he himself being injured by an arrow, he decided to meet Cochise to try to speak to him about a possible agreement to let the mail arrive. At that time his knowledge of the Apache language was quite basic but it was enough to talk to the chief for a couple of days. He never mentioned that blood ritual you talk about but it is known that the Apaches used to call him Taglito due to his moustache and he did confirm that Cochise used to call him Chickasaw (brother) with the disapproval of some members of the band. The relationship seemed to be strong for Taza and Naiche said that when his father was about to die, he told to his people to keep peace with the whites (“as long as they could” in Naiches words) and to follow Taglito’s advices, the man to whom he always maintained the given word, relating to treaties. |
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Post by guest on Jun 5, 2019 3:29:51 GMT -5
Daklugie in Eve Ball´s "Indeh - An Apache Odyssey": "There are stories of Jeffords having gone boldly to Cochise's stronghold alone. That is not as the Apaches know it. They say that Jeffords was captured by Cochise's scouts, but that he exhibited no fear. The Apaches were so impressed by his courage that instead of killing him they took him to Cochise." Tom Jeffords was in charge of the supervision of the Southern Overland and after the loss of fourteen men and he himself being injured by an arrow, he decided to meet Cochise to try to speak to him about a possible agreement to let the mail arrive. At that time his knowledge of the Apache language was quite basic but it was enough to talk to the chief for a couple of days. He never mentioned that blood ritual you talk about but it is known that the Apaches used to call him Taglito due to his moustache and he did confirm that Cochise used to call him Chickasaw (brother) with the disapproval of some members of the band. The relationship seemed to be strong for Taza and Naiche said that when his father was about to die, he told to his people to keep peace with the whites (“as long as they could” in Naiches words) and to follow Taglito’s advices, the man to whom he always maintained the given word, relating to treaties. there is no evidence that the story with the 14 lost mail riders is true. Even at these times people could not just disappear, there should be some evidences. The story that Asa Daklugie tells is more likely to be true: Jeffords was out there as a prospector and was captured by Apaches. from the book: Doug Hocking: "Tom Jeffords - Friend of Cochise": "In 1868 George W. Cook and John M. Shaw of Socorro, New Mexico, opened the Southern Overland US Mail and Express Line with passengers service between Santa Fe and El Paso and Mesilla and Tucson. Tom Jeffords was the supervisor of the line from Socorro to Tuscon. He stayed until March 1869. Legends says that Tom lost twenty mail riders in this time and had trouble finding replacements. That would have made mail service highly irregular, which it was not. Attacks on mail riders were well reported in the newspaper when they ocurred a few times per year." so when Jeffords and Cochise met for the first time, Jeffords was no longer supervisor of the line |
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natethegreat
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Post by natethegreat on Jun 5, 2019 9:41:22 GMT -5
Jeffords also helped Cochise and his band of Chiricahua get their own Reservation so they would not have to live with the San Carlos branch. This was a big motivation for Cochise and his War Captains to control their warriors. This was largely successful and Jeffords contacted General O.O. Howard and said the Chiricahha have not been on the warpath.
This is why Cochise told his son's to keep the peace. Having their own Reservation in their homeland and having guaranteed food. Even Geronimo went off the warpath and settled down. But then government politics messed it all up and Agent Clum from San Carlos became obsessed with having the entire Apache Nation under his control at San Carlos. The Chiricahua lost their reservation and resumed the warpath. Agent Club was the only man to capture Geronimo but he was forced to resign due to charges of corruption.
Before C!um left he telegraphed the Sherrif at Tuscon to come get Geronimo for civial in civi! Court, but for some reason the Sherrif never came and after serving 2 months confinement at San Carlos he was released.
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Nahi
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Post by Nahi on Jun 5, 2019 12:36:05 GMT -5
Hi Guest,
I think that the evidences lie on the sources you look at. I have read about the loss of the mail carriers in more than one historic book that I give credit to. I think that historians work is amazing. Years of investigation, libraries, files, books.. They contrast the info they find ‘as much as posible´ probably, being very restrictive, there are things that could never be taken as a statement.
Sometimes they fall into contradictions (I.e. I have read that the first meeting among Jeffords and Cochise, was in 1867 and also in 1872). If the first one is right, the Southern Overland wasn't the cause why they met, for Jeffords I think worked in the company in 1868. The answer must be in Sweeney´s Cochises book which I am ashamed to say I have not read yet.
In any case, the reason why they met won't necessarily lead us to know if he was captured or if the meeting was previously planned, nor does reject the the fact of the loss of the mail carriers.
Probably Asa Daklugie was right and Jeffords was caught, and any other version is just a legend. But Asa was born around 10 years after that Jeffords/Cochise meeting. He gave credit to Eve Ball of the version he was told about, around 70 years latter if I remember the dates properly. That sounds not very irrefutable neither. Not easy to really know.
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