Chief Red Cloud

[rich00]

Thank you Dietmar.

[sterlep]

Aloha from Hawaii!
Is Luke Red Cloud a decendant of Cheif Red Cloud? I am trying to learn about his history. Any information that you can share with me would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Stephanie Terlep

[jeroen]

[ephriam]

Interview from the Meany Papers:

Pine Ridge, S.D. 10 VII [July] 1907
John Monroe, Interpreter

Red Cloud
Mah-pia-luta

All these things used to belong to me. Now I turn them all over to my son Jack.

Through wars amongst ourselves we get great honors and become great men.

I am old now but men come and pay me ten dollars but you may pay me $4.00.

Seventeen years of age when he first went into battle. I took that war party out. From the edge of the fight it was as far to the Boarding School. They killed 8 and he took one scalp -- Pawnees.

They went there again and he was in the party. They killed three.

They started again. They killed 80 Pawnees. Age of 15 then. In that fight he took two scalps and shot one in privates.

Fight with Shoshones killed 2 of them one had a war bonnet that went clear down his back and one had no war [bonnet] but he grabbed him by the hair, dragged him little ways and scalped him.

He has fought with all kinds of Indians but he has not found any of them bravest. He fought Crows, he killed 10 and chased them into their lodges.

They never have chased him yet.

Party of Sioux started a war against the Crows. When they got close to them he went ahead on foot and about daylight he saw a Crow bringing out his horse to graze. He charged on Crow with arrows shot and killed him, took his horses and clothes and started back towards his men. [In margin:] He took Crow's own knife and stabbed him to death.

Started to run and Crows got after him and chased him to where his men were. There they had big fight all day long. He had the big scalp against his belly.

Crow stole his horses at night so he followed trail all night and daylight caught up. Crow who was driving horses was only few yards away, so when he saw this Crow he took aim and shot him and started towards him and jumped on him, took Crow's knife, stabbed him and scalped him.

Started in the morning but only stayed until sundown and came back.

Got name for being good warrior. His father had same name and so he got same. [In margin:] His own name was Two Arrows before his father died.

Only saw Sitting Bull one season and they were friends. Sitting Bull gave him a horse and food and treated him well.

Before he went on fasting he dreamed such things but one day's fasting.

Na chili his brother in law gave him medicine tied up in little buckskin. Before starting to war he took this medicine and rubbed himself all over.

Eagle feather small one and eagle plume. His medicine went all over the world.

Two Arrows
Wan-num pa
Pine Ridge, S.D. 10 July 1907
The above design was drawn by Jack Red Cloud and the name Two Arrows, by which Chief Red Cloud was known before his father's death, was conferred upon Edmond S. Meany in our presence by the said Chief Red Cloud on this day.
Alexander B. Upshaw (Crow)
John Monroe (Oglala Sioux)

[drawing]
Wun-cal-we-cha-sha
Man Above

Mah-pia-luta
Jack Red Cloud

His medicine drawn by himself.


Edward Curtis' portrait of Red Cloud.

[grahamew]

Red Cloud - photographed by Joseph Henry Sharp

[dT]

ephriam ... very interesting comments on Red Clouds life.
But surprising forwhat it does NOT say - nothing about the war wages with the White man??!
Are there more papers about Red Cloud in Meany's writings ... is there more material?

thanks for posting this!
dT

[Dietmar]

We had this photo by Gus Trager on page 1 of this thread, but in poor quality.

Red Cloud is standing in front of this group. Left of him (with eagle-fan) is possibly He Dog.

[daphne]

Mar 25, 2014 5:54:38 GMT -5 ephriam said:

Interview from the Meany Papers:

Pine Ridge, S.D. 10 VII [July] 1907
John Monroe, Interpreter

Red Cloud
Mah-pia-luta

All these things used to belong to me. Now I turn them all over to my son Jack.

Through wars amongst ourselves we get great honors and become great men.

I am old now but men come and pay me ten dollars but you may pay me $4.00.

Seventeen years of age when he first went into battle. I took that war party out. From the edge of the fight it was as far to the Boarding School. They killed 8 and he took one scalp -- Pawnees.

They went there again and he was in the party. They killed three.

They started again. They killed 80 Pawnees. Age of 15 then. In that fight he took two scalps and shot one in privates.

Fight with Shoshones killed 2 of them one had a war bonnet that went clear down his back and one had no war [bonnet] but he grabbed him by the hair, dragged him little ways and scalped him.

He has fought with all kinds of Indians but he has not found any of them bravest. He fought Crows, he killed 10 and chased them into their lodges.

They never have chased him yet.

Party of Sioux started a war against the Crows. When they got close to them he went ahead on foot and about daylight he saw a Crow bringing out his horse to graze. He charged on Crow with arrows shot and killed him, took his horses and clothes and started back towards his men. [In margin:] He took Crow's own knife and stabbed him to death.

Started to run and Crows got after him and chased him to where his men were. There they had big fight all day long. He had the big scalp against his belly.

Crow stole his horses at night so he followed trail all night and daylight caught up. Crow who was driving horses was only few yards away, so when he saw this Crow he took aim and shot him and started towards him and jumped on him, took Crow's knife, stabbed him and scalped him.

Started in the morning but only stayed until sundown and came back.

Got name for being good warrior. His father had same name and so he got same. [In margin:] His own name was Two Arrows before his father died.

Only saw Sitting Bull one season and they were friends. Sitting Bull gave him a horse and food and treated him well.

Before he went on fasting he dreamed such things but one day's fasting.

Na chili his brother in law gave him medicine tied up in little buckskin. Before starting to war he took this medicine and rubbed himself all over.

Eagle feather small one and eagle plume. His medicine went all over the world.

Two Arrows
Wan-num pa
Pine Ridge, S.D. 10 July 1907
The above design was drawn by Jack Red Cloud and the name Two Arrows, by which Chief Red Cloud was known before his father's death, was conferred upon Edmond S. Meany in our presence by the said Chief Red Cloud on this day.
Alexander B. Upshaw (Crow)
John Monroe (Oglala Sioux)

[drawing]
Wun-cal-we-cha-sha
Man Above

Mah-pia-luta
Jack Red Cloud

His medicine drawn by himself.


Edward Curtis' portrait of Red Cloud.

[grahamew]

A new - to me - photo of Red Cloud from ebay, of all places. Looks to be taken at the same session as the photo of Red Cloud, Knife, Jack Red Cloud and Baptiste Garnier in the 1890s (p109 of the Goodyear book). What's interesting is that he's wearing the waistcoat and jacket Garnier wears in the other photo and he now has a feather in his hair.

[grahamew]

Dietmar posted this a while back:



I came across this on the Heritage Auction site:





No exact date, but Snyder had been associated with the Wild West Show since at least 1887. Judging by the way Red Cloud looks, I'd say mid-1890s. Asay was a Wild West show recruiter, based in Rushville, who also owned a store where the Indians could exchange their pay for goods.  Liddiard, I think, performed a similar function and was known as Rattlesnake Pete.

Asay's store:


Supposedly from 1908.


The man indicated is Asay. Circa 1900.


Sadly, this is a crop. Asay is number 1; his wife at Number 2; Jack Red Cloud is number 8; American Horse, number 4.  I don't see Rocky Bear on there, unless he's the man at left on the horse. The mounted man with the white shirt behind and to the right of Mrs Asay could be Flat Iron. Supposedly taken in 1893. I'm wondering if the man next to Mrs Asay is Snyder.


Is that another (THE) Red Cloud at number 5? The image has obviously been cropped. Maybe Rocky Bear was over that side too. Love to see the other section!

[redroadgreatplains]

Does anyone know which brother of Red Cloud was the father of Black Buffalo Woman? I am trying to find her parents and their dates of birth/death. I am also very interested in what became of her 4 children.

[redroadgreatplains]

Can anyone tell me which brother of Red Cloud was the father of Black Buffalo Woman? And who her mother was?

[kingsleybray]

Black Buffalo Woman's parents were Red Cloud's brother (half brother in Euro-American terms) Spider, also known as Tall Hollow Horn, and a daughter of Old Man Afraid of His Horse. I don't have her name.

[redroadgreatplains]

Mr Bray, thank you very much for this most helpful and useful response. I have actually just finished re-reading your remarkable work on Crazy Horse, for the third time, and have a small query. I know Black Shawl would, at best, have been of tangential interest in your research but there seems to be a little confusion about where she went after Crazy Horse's murder - at one point, you mention that she stayed with Worm and his family (which seems the most likely option), but in the Notes you also mention that by the following year she was living with her widowed mother at the Spotted Tail Agency. So, did she just spend a few months with Worm and then move to her own people?
I am fighting an uphill battle to try and trace what became of her after Crazy Horse's death, as well as what happened to Black Buffalo Woman and her four children after her return to No Water. Any suggestions from a legend like you would be very gratefully received.

[Californian]

does anyone know the photographer of this portrait ?

click onto image to enlarge