War chiefs and regular chiefs

[hazel]

Hello, all!

I have a question regarding the role of the war chiefs and chiefs of the Lakota. If discussed before, I`m sorry and would appreciate a link i the right direction.

In general, I`ve always thought that the war chiefs lead warriors in war, maybe even the entire people during all out war, kind off like the Romans would do during dire times. They would lead bands of warriors, and the chiefs would handle more the daily affairs, but if at the right age still go to war.

Yet for example during the time Reynolds`March attacks in 1876, the refugees are mentioned as going first to "Crazy Horse`s village". This is after he lost his status as Shirt Wearer, as everyone here knows... So my question is if War Chiefs and Chiefs were as separated as I thought, or if the dynamic was not as rigid, perhaps? Could you be both? Maybe Sitting Bull was in some way, at some time, but Crazy Horse for example never was the politician it seems. Yet references are made to camps and villages "under"/"led by" people commonly mentioned as war chiefs.

My wordings fail me, as 1: I`m from Norway 2: We have tropical nights going ong 3: I babysit a couple of pups 4: Had some glasses of wine. Yet, I hope my point comes clear.

Thank you in advance!

All the best.

[owotanla]

I think the title of "chief" was more hereditary.....a war leader would not generally be a chief such as Crazy horse was

[Deleted]

A war leader is blotahuka and decides, with the consent of the people, strategy and tactics for any enemy engagement. Leadership within an oyate is broken down into tiospaye, band living units. Smoke was a shirt wearer and leader of many tiospaye. He was Oglala and his sons were itancan, leaders, of some of these bands. Crazy horse, sunka witko, was a shirt wearer and the grandson of a sister of Smoke. But he lost that honor over personal difficulties regarding his relationship with the wife of another man. And though he lost his status as protector of the people, he was still blotahuka and it was fate that led the Cheyenne and a small contingent of Oglala into his camp. Do you know why the Reynold's attack failed? That is a very interesting story that the federal government still wants to keep hushed up. The key players there were the interpreter half-breed grandsons of Smoke, the Shangrau brothers. John and Louis were above the Powder River when the camp was discovered and it was them who led the disoriented dismounted troopers in the fog and mists rising off the river into deep snow filled ravines and bollixed the whole plan. Had it not been for those two men, spies really, Greasy Grass would have probably never have come off the way it did. Even histories of the Lakota skip over this part. Catherine Price does not even mention the punitive expedition of George Crook in March of 1876 in her book and it is supposedly the history of the Oglala during this period.

[Deleted]

This file has been removed but it tells almost (almost) all the story.

COLONEL JOSEPH J. REYNOLDS AND THE SAINT PATRICK’S DAY CELEBRATION ON POWDER RIVER: BATTLE OF POWDER RIVER (MONTANA, 17 MARCH 1876) by MICHAEL L. HEDEGAARD, MAJ, USA
file:///C:/Users/david/AppData/Local/Packages/Microsoft.MicrosoftEdge_8wekyb3d8bbwe/TempState/Downloads/ADA396759.pdf

Both Shangrau brothers, Louis and John, were with Crook's Expedition to the Power River in March of 1876, and though Michael L. Hedegaard does not specifically state it as fact, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the mixed blood scout interpreters he had with him were the cause of the failure of the "mission" to decimate the "hostiles" in their hunting grounds. It's interlaced throughout the book I have (mostly) written. All I have to do now is find a suitable (any) publisher.

[Deleted]

And, by the way, thanks so much hazel. You are a God send. How did you know about "... during the time Reynolds`March attacks in 1876, the refugees are mentioned as going first to "Crazy Horse`s village"? This is not a well-traveled path as far as I know. I found mention of it in a general internet search for all things Shangrau but it is obscure as is the very name Shangrau. Smoke also. Not much is known or told about him and his role. Born in 1774, he lived to age ninety and died at Fort Laramie in 1864. He had five wives and many children and most of the names of his daughters are not even known. But his fourth wife was a Cheyenne woman named Yellow Haired and they had a daughter named Wiyela (also known as Gabby) who married Jules Shangrau, a young Frenchman who came into the country circa 1840 and the rest is history. It was John Shangrau who was with the federal troops who brought a dying Big Foot and his people to Wounded Knee and he was nearly killed there himself. He later worked for his old childhood friend Bill Cody and, while in England, married a young Englishwoman and had a second family following the death of his first wife. Though unsung, without men like John Shangrau, Bill Cody would have been lost trying to wrangle all the chiefs he had in tow, including some of the relatives of his mother.

[Deleted]

This is part of a stanza written by George Sword regarding the heyoka (he who dreams of Wakinyan) initiates being brought to the lodge, ti, of the war leader, “blotahuka (war leader) oti (he abides there)” (this is in quotes because it is a ritual title that is used in repetition) el (to him) aglipi (they bring them).

[Deleted]

For anyone interested in the preamble to Greasy Grass:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Powder_River

[Mike]

Aug 3, 2018 19:36:11 GMT -5 @georg said:

This file has been removed but it tells almost (almost) all the story.

COLONEL JOSEPH J. REYNOLDS AND THE SAINT PATRICK’S DAY CELEBRATION ON POWDER RIVER: BATTLE OF POWDER RIVER (MONTANA, 17 MARCH 1876) by MICHAEL L. HEDEGAARD, MAJ, USA
file:///C:/Users/david/AppData/Local/Packages/Microsoft.MicrosoftEdge_8wekyb3d8bbwe/TempState/Downloads/ADA396759.pdf

Both Shangrau brothers, Louis and John, were with Crook's Expedition to the Power River in March of 1876, and though Michael L. Hedegaard does not specifically state it as fact, the only conclusion that can be drawn is that the mixed blood scout interpreters he had with him were the cause of the failure of the "mission" to decimate the "hostiles" in their hunting grounds. It's interlaced throughout the book I have (mostly) written. All I have to do now is find a suitable (any) publisher.

This is a great read by the way 

www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a396759.pdf

[Deleted]

The first massacre was perpetrated by troops under the command of "woman killer" Harney at Blue Water Creek in 1855. This was mostly Sicangu, but there were also some Oglala. The "body count" was upwards of eighty but that is probably an underestimate. The slaughter was wholesale without regard to age or sex. It was revenge for the death of those under the command of Fetterman and the people killed had nothing to do with that event. The goal always was the assimilation of all and the eradication of any who would resist.