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Low Dog
Aug 26, 2008 17:09:51 GMT -5
Post by low dog on Aug 26, 2008 17:09:51 GMT -5
I have asked this question on the other board, and have had some replies from Dietmar and Graham, and I think Ladonna, but I will ask it again in the hope somebody can help.
I am trying to find anything I can about Low Dog, more particularly what happened to him after he surrendered and was photographed by Barry. I now know that he was arrested very shortly after the Ghost Dance outbreak, for taking a boy away from school, a boy who may actually have been Kicking Bears son, although there is some confusion about that. He was imprisoned in fort Snelling, but was released later the same year, and then escorted back to the Cheyenne river agency. In two of his books, Richard Hardorff gives two different dates for his death, and off the top of my head without looking at my notes they were, 1894 and 1910, so, quite a big difference. I have another note that says he may have died on the Owl river. I am also looking out for any other photos of him, there are a number on the other board if anyone is interested.
thanks Low Dog
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Low Dog
Aug 26, 2008 17:55:54 GMT -5
Post by Dietmar on Aug 26, 2008 17:55:54 GMT -5
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Low Dog
Aug 27, 2008 8:11:28 GMT -5
Post by low dog on Aug 27, 2008 8:11:28 GMT -5
Hello Dietmar,
thanks for putting the all the Low Dog posts up, very handy to have them here and not go serching through the other site. Dietmar, or indeed anybody else who can help, I have several other Indians I am interested in, three of them have some loose connection with Low Dog, they are, Red Bear, probably a Sans Arc, Black Fox posible cousin of Crazy Horse, and Black Shield. Any information or more especially photographs of these men would be appreciated. The other man I'm interested in at the moment is Crow Eagle. I have seen one photo of him and he looks a very mean individual indeed. Any other Photos out there?
Low Dog
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Low Dog
Aug 27, 2008 9:26:50 GMT -5
Post by kingsleybray on Aug 27, 2008 9:26:50 GMT -5
Hello Low Dog
Red Bear, Sans Arc, Tatanka Chesli (Buffalo Bull Dung) band. Fought at the Little Bighorn, was one of the Miniconjou and Sans Arc leaders who chose to surrender at Spotted Tail Agency in spring 1877. He (along with Touch the Clouds, Roman Nose [Miniconjous], and High Bear [Sans Arc]) was one of the four Deciders (Wakichunze) chosen by the council to oversee the organization of the Northern village in April 1877. He was enlisted as a sergeant of scouts at Spotted Tail Agency and accompanied the delegation to Washington in September, in the immediate aftermath of the killing of Crazy Horse. However he was seriously disillusioned with the agency experiment. During fall 1877 the Red Cloud and Spotted Tail agencies were relocated to temporary sites on the Missouri River - a move hugely unpopular with all shades of Lakota opinion. Red Bear was one of the key leaders in the breakaway movement that fled to Canada during the removal.
Black Fox, Oglala Oyuhpe band, was indeed a cousin of Crazy Horse. Their mothers were in some way related. He was a brother of Kicking Bear. Their father was Black Fox I, or Cut Forehead, an Oyuhpe chief by the mid-1860s. I think he probably died in the early 1870s. He, like both Red Bear and Low Dog, was a leader in the breakouts to Canada in fall 1877. He was killed in intertribal warfare with the Blackfeet in Canada. Two Lakota people in speaking to me identified Kicking Bear with the Wakan (Sacred) sub-band of the Oyuhpe.
Black Shield was of an older generation, probably born about 1810. He belonged to the Shunka-yuteshni (Eat No Dogs) band of the Miniconjou, and was one of the cohort of band chiefs (wichasha itanchan) appointed by the Miniconjou tribal council in 1853. His sons included two named Big Crow - the elder being killed by Crows on the Belle Fourche river in 1859-60 (see the winter counts). Black Shield led a famous revenge expedition against the Crows the following summer. He was also one of the Miniconjou leaders who organized the December 1866 campaign that climaxed in the Fetterman fight. He remained committed to the non-treaty faction of Miniconjous, not visiting the agencies and being involved throughout the Great Sioux War of 1876-77. Obviously reluctantly he was among the leaders to surrender at Spotted Tail Agency - and again was involved in the breakaways of that fall.
Like Red Bear, I am not sure of his later activities. Ephriam may be able to help see if he appears in the post 1881 surrender and census records.
There was a photo of Red Bear recently appeared on the Cowan's auction site, taken near Spotted Tail Agency with remarks by Ephriam on the site. He also appears in two of the photos taken in Washington Sept.-Oct. 1877 - the Corcoran art gallery spread and another of the Spotted Tail Agency delegation that Matthew Brady took. These photos are somewhere on the LBHA Northern Plains Indian message boards.
Don't know of any photos of Black Fox or Black Shield. Hope this helps,
Kingsley Bray
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Low Dog
Aug 27, 2008 10:10:01 GMT -5
Post by Dietmar on Aug 27, 2008 10:10:01 GMT -5
Here´s the Red Bear photo from Cowan´s auction site: CDV of Red Bear, Sioux Chief, Probably Oglala, with Howard, Fort Sanders, Wyoming Ty. imprint, early 1870s. Identification appears as ink inscription, verso. Red Bear cradles a carbine in his left arm. A young son and daughter are seated on a log beside the chief's wife. Palisade-style log buildings, probably part of Fort Sanders, are seen in the left background. AUCTIONEER'S NOTE: Ephraim Dickson has pointed out that the image was taken by Private Charles Howard at Camp Sheridan / Spotted Tail Agency in the fall of 1877. Red Bear (Mato Luta) was a Sans Arc Lakota headman who surrendered at Spotted Tail int he spring of 1877 before fleeing with his band to Canada, probably shortly after this image was taken. It would have thus been printed between 1878, when Howard arrived at Fort Sanders, and 1880, when he was discharged from the army. Thank you for bringing us "up to speed" on this image. www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5294683We also discussed at the old boards about the 1877 delegation photos. Ephriam pointed out that this man could be Red Bear:
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Low Dog
Aug 27, 2008 10:26:51 GMT -5
Post by Dietmar on Aug 27, 2008 10:26:51 GMT -5
Btw, is the Red Bear in the 1868 photographs taken by Gardner at Fort Laramie another man? Red Bear standing far left Red Bear standing second from right (shaking hands with James Bordeaux)
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Low Dog
Aug 27, 2008 10:46:25 GMT -5
Post by kingsleybray on Aug 27, 2008 10:46:25 GMT -5
Haho, haho, Dietmar - thanks for posting the Red Bear photo's. About the 1868 Gardner Fort Laramie pic's, I'm pretty sure this won't be the Sans Arc Red Bear. I sometimes wonder if this fellow isn't Yellow Bear, leading man in the Oglala Spleen (Tapislecha) band. There's a Mitchell shot of Yellow Bear the younger (younger brother, I would have thought) - the older man was killed by John Richard Jr. in 1872. But only a guess.
Kingsley
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Low Dog
Aug 27, 2008 13:51:04 GMT -5
Post by Dietmar on Aug 27, 2008 13:51:04 GMT -5
Oh... Yellow Bear... this would explain why he is seen here with other Oglalas. There is another Gardner photo taken at the same time: The men are identified as (from left to right) Fire Thunder, Man-Afraid-of-his-Horses and Pipe. I would think the man standing right is not Pipe but also Red Bear/Yellow Bear (or whoever he is). Am I wrong?
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Low Dog
Aug 28, 2008 9:23:08 GMT -5
Post by kingsleybray on Aug 28, 2008 9:23:08 GMT -5
Yep, I presume the guy identified as Pipe in this pic is the same as the Red Bear in the other shot with Old Man Afraid of His Horse. This is a bit confusing as there is another guy identified as Pipe in two of the other Gardner Ft Laramie shots. Now we need a photo expert on the case because I'm a little unsure how identifications were made on the Gardner photo's. I remember reading somewhere that some of the Indian ID's were made when Walter Camp took a set of prints to the reservations. Is that right?
Kingsley
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Low Dog
Aug 28, 2008 10:56:59 GMT -5
Post by Dietmar on Aug 28, 2008 10:56:59 GMT -5
Yes, Kingsley. I had ordered the second of the Laramie photos above years ago from the archives of Smithsonian Insitute, before there were any Indian photos available on the internet… my God, I am old! The Smithsonian had sent with the photograph a sheet of paper with additional information... some typewritten, some handwritten. Obviously several people added to the original information: (typewritten:) The following identifications were furnished by Miss Marjory Douglas, Curator of Missouri Historical Society (Letter Oct. 15, 1945), who states they were made by W.M. Camp probably 30 or 35 years ago:
No identification for man at extreme left. (check marks ahead each name) Packs his Drum – Oglala Sioux – sitting John Finn Amos Bettelyoun – standing W.G. Bullock – sitting Old Man Afraid of His Horses Benjamin Mills – sitting Red Bear James Bordeau. (James S. Collins – “Fighting Indians of the West, “Schmitt and Brown, P. 36)
The list in “Fighting Indians of the West,” includes those checked in the above list. (Credit line: “William Selby Harney Collection, Missouri Historical Society”)There is a hand-written comment behind Packs the Drum: = Sitting Bull, the Oglala, acc. to Harry Anderson, here 6/9/58So several people checked the identifications, but Camp was the first to write them down. I wonder if Gardner himself left no inscriptions on his photos. Dietmar
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Low Dog
Aug 29, 2008 11:27:30 GMT -5
Post by ephriam on Aug 29, 2008 11:27:30 GMT -5
Regarding Red Bear, I can add a few more details to what Kingsley posted.
Red Bear (Mato Luta) was born about 1837 in what is today South Dakota. I have not been able to establish his relationship yet to any other Sans Arc families, but he was clearly a headman of some influence by the time of the Great Sioux War of 1876-77, generally associated with the non-treaty factions such as Spotted Eagle.
I was very excited to see mention of his affiliation with the Buffalo Bull Dung band. I did not know that. Kingsley, may I ask your source?
Horned Horse reported that he was one of the leaders of the Sans Arc at the Little Bighorn; presumably also participated in other battles during the Great Sioux War of 1876-77. As already noted, he surrendered at the Spotted Tail Agency in April 1877. He enlisted in Lieut. W. Philo Clark's Indian Scouts, serving as a sergeant in Company E (the company led by Touch the Clouds that included a mixture of "northern" Indians from Spotted Tail and some Brule to "leaven" the mix). He was a delegate to Washington, D.C. and as noted, helped organize the flight north to Canada that winter.
Red Bear probably returned from Canada and surrendered with Spotted Eagle at Fort Keogh in October 1880. These Sans Arc were transferred to Fort Yates and the Standing Rock Agency in June 1881. Unfortunately, Spotted Eagle's people were transferred a few months later to the Cheyenne River Agency, before the Sitting Bull Surrender Census was compiled, so they are not included in that record. However, the name Red Bear does appear in the list of new arrivals with Spotted Eagle at Cheyenne River in 1881.
There is a gap in the census records for Cheyenne River from 1881 to 1886, but Red Bear appears in the census from 1886 through 1910. He was married at least three times (perhaps as many as 6 times according to one census). His last wife was named Her Black Horse, whom he married about 1893. Red Bear lived the remainder of his life at Cheyenne River. He died at Cherry Creek on May 13, 1911.
His widow later filed for a pension based on Red Bear's service as an Indian scout. I have been trying to get a copy but it was not at the National Archives; must still be with Army records in St. Louis.
Finally, I should mention that this Red Bear should not be confused with another Little Bighorn veteran by the same name who was later convicted of his role in the Metis Rebellion in Canada and died in prison about 1887. There was also a Northern Cheyenne named Red Bear who lived among the Oglala, particularly associated with No Water's band. In later years, his descendants considered themselves to be Oglala. (For another example of this "Lakota-ization" of Cheyenne families, see Joe Starita's book, The Dull Knifes of Pine Ridge).
Maybe we can track down some descendants of the Red Bear family who could fill in some more details! Hope this helps.
ephriam
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Low Dog
Aug 30, 2008 12:50:23 GMT -5
Post by kingsleybray on Aug 30, 2008 12:50:23 GMT -5
Ephriam, thanks for the extra detail on Red Bear and his Six Wives. My source for his band affiliation is a report in the 'Special Files' of HQ, Div. of the Missouri, Files Relating to Military Operations - Sioux War, NARS, Microcopy M1495, Roll 4. Lt. Col. G. P. Buell, 11th Inf., comdg HQ, Cheyenne River Agency, to Asst Adj. Gen./Gen. Terry's Column in the field, September 9, 1876. Buell reports on intelligence received from "Couriers from the hostile camp." They report the main hostile village "2000 lodges strong near Sentinel Butte South of the South Fork of Grand River, about 180 Miles from here". "The following are the names of principal Chiefs reported in the Camp: Viz - Spotted Eagle and Red Bear belonging to the 'Bull Dung' Band. 'Swift Bull' and 'Swift Bird' belonging to the 'Grandmothers Band.' 'Crazy Horse' and [']Little Big Man' to the [']Ogallalah Band', 'No Neck' Uncapapas Band' 'Black Moon' 'Four Horns' (Uncle to [']Sitting Bull') and Sitting Bull." Re-reading it, the "couriers" debriefed by Buell seem to be using the names Bull Dung and Grandmothers as synonyms for, respectively, Sans Arc and Miniconjou. In haste! Kingsley
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Low Dog
Aug 31, 2008 5:06:10 GMT -5
Post by Low Dog on Aug 31, 2008 5:06:10 GMT -5
On looking through my notes recently I came across a reference that suggested that Low Dog was part of a group that left the reservation on a clandestine visit around Christmas 1889, to see and hear Wovoka preach. The group included the usual suspects, i.e. Kicking Bear, Short Bull, and a man named Fire Thunder, about who I know almost nothing, does anyone know which branch of the Sioux he belonged to? There were also a number of Cheyennes who took part in the trip, including a woman, but the only Cheyenne named is a man named Porcupine .
In connection to this, and I'll admit the connection maybe a bit tenuous, in his book " Voices of Wounded Knee, William Colman states that in a letter written by the Indian agent McLaughlin, he writes suggesting that a few malcontents be removed before they cause any further trouble, amongst those he names are, Sitting Bull, Circling Bear, Black Bird and Circling Hawk from his agency, Big Foot and his lieutenants from the Cheyenne River; and Crow Dog and Low Dog from the Rosebud. Note that the name Fire Thunder dosen't figure here.
In the books index the author indicates that the Low Dog he mentions is in fact a Brule. Now I have to wonder if that is a slip or a mistake, a feeling somewhat reinforced by the fact; and I know this is going to sound a little harsh, that one of the photos in the book, supposedly of Kicking Bear, is in my opinion plainly not him, I know the face in the picture, but can't put a name to him at the moment,{ if anybody has the book have they any ideas? } but I'm certain it's not Kicking Bear.
There are so many photos of Kicking Bear around, and his is a face well known to anybody with the slightest interested in the subject, in which case one would think that they would have had no problem in finding a photo of the right man. Maybe I'm wrong and someone will be able to say it is indeed Kicking Bear, if so then I apologize, but for the moment my feeling is, that if they can't get that right how much else can you trust.
All of which has taken me away from my initial question. Does anybody know anything about that visit to Wovoka, Fire Thunder, and indeed some of those other, unfamiler names that were mentioned, and if Low Dog was one of the visitors.
Low Dog
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Low Dog
Aug 31, 2008 6:04:04 GMT -5
Post by grahamew on Aug 31, 2008 6:04:04 GMT -5
No, it's not Kicking Bear. Off the top of my head, without going back to the book, it's Bull Head, one of the policemen involved in the arrest and killing of Sitting Bull. Bizarre mistake! So much for UNP's picture editor!
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Low Dog
Sept 5, 2008 15:53:56 GMT -5
Post by Low Dog on Sept 5, 2008 15:53:56 GMT -5
grahamew,
Did you ever come across any information or indeed a better resolution of the photo you posted on the other board some time back, the one where Low Dog, Gall, Rain and, whoops, the other mans name escapes me for the moment, are seated in front of the tent, but in this one there are some officers and one presumes their wives in the photo as well. The other two photographs taken at the same time are fairly well known now, but that one was a complete surprise, makes one wonder if there are others out there waiting to surface.
Low Dog
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