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Post by mark2dgs on Oct 31, 2015 4:09:31 GMT -5
Great photograph! Haven't seen the Al Lucke before. Thank's for posting it.
I am not yet convinced that the "Friend of Custer and Crook" photograph really shows Imasees/Little Bear.
If the Klenze view indeed does show Imasees/Little Bear (And I think it does) Then that would be the closest timewise to the "Friends of Custer and Crook" to compare likeness with. Not the same man in my opinion.
However if You compare the Klenze upwards/onwards in timeframe to the later 1893/96 portraits of Imasees/Little Bear, there is a striking resemblance. Not only in facial features, stature and dressmode, but also in his very distinct hairstyle.
The matted, twisted lock hairstyle, I have seen described as associated with Cree-Assiniboin "Bear Warrior/Soldier" Cult. If so, that could perhaps tie the "Friends of Custer and Crook" fellow to Imasees/Little Bear in some way.
He appears stripped for battle only with the blanket belted around his waist. Not even moccasins. His back hair does look messe aside from his roached bangs. No knife visible on the photo, but could be on his back or under blanket, to save it from "exposure" to photography. All this is pure speculation, I know. Just observations on the matter at hand, that I have collected over the years..
IF Imasees/Little Bear HAD served as a US. Army scout during the campaign of 1876, I would think it an obvious position to bring out in the open during the many years He tried to gain US. Indian status and reservation for his struggeling band in Montana.
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Post by grahamew on Oct 31, 2015 5:23:58 GMT -5
"IF Imasees/Little Bear HAD served as a US. Army scout during the campaign of 1876, I would think it an obvious position to bring out in the open during the many years He tried to gain US. Indian status and reservation for his struggeling band in Montana."
Tend to agree. Do we know if this is Taylor's handwriting? Maybe it was added later? If it was his, do we know where he got the information from? One thing clear from looking at old photos of Indians is that a fair proportion aren't labelled correctly, even when they're in the collections of prestigious museums. Finding another photo with that backdrop might help, but I haven't found one so far and if the dates for Taylor's collection are correct, that kind of limnits things.
What's the best book on the subject? I've only read Loyal till Death (on Dietmar's recommendation), Paririe Fire and a handful of articles, including the one I mentioned above.
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Post by mark2dgs on Oct 31, 2015 5:59:29 GMT -5
Haven't compared the handwriting on "Friends of Custer and Crook image to the other numorous Taylor images yet. Nor have I come across same backdrop yet. I think it likely that the handwriting was added later. Indeed atleast the inkwriting would be, I suppose..
Regarding books,- Hugh Dempsey's bio on Big Bear is well researched, well written and well cooperated with oral history from Four Souls, grandson of Imasees/Little Bear. He was still alive when Dempsey wrote the book.
Gary Botting wrote a book that has a lot of the Imasees/Little Bear history in it as background for his bio on Chief Smallboy, who was born an had his chilhood years in camp with the Crees in Montana.
It's a book that again ballances written record with oral history and gives insights to a legacy that is otherwise not often heard of and that goes on till today.
There's a J. Fromhold that has published tons of info on the furtrade and Cree and Metis history and associated tribes. Lot's of very little known data. He has or had a website: Heritage Data Bank that I don't think is maintained anymore. Excerpts from his books can be read online. I did try an order once, but never saw the book :-(
Then there's a couple of bios out on Wandering Spirit and Fine Day, that I think are primarily oral history. Have not yet been able to read them.
Mandelbaums work among the River Cree is good, ofcourse. More Saskatchewan Cree detailed than Western Cree related, when it comes to detail.
Hope This list off the top of my head gives You something "new".
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Post by mark2dgs on Oct 31, 2015 6:31:18 GMT -5
The Bios on Wandering Spirit and Fine Day are by Gary Raddison.
Four Souls was Imasees/Little Bears son,- not grandson.
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Post by grahamew on Oct 31, 2015 9:47:42 GMT -5
Thanks.
I don't know why I don't have Dempsey's book!
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Post by grahamew on Nov 10, 2015 14:36:32 GMT -5
I either read this incorrectly or it was plain wrong. I've just looked through Taylor's collection at SIRIS and it's clear he was collecting long after 1883: for example, he has some Rinehart photos from 1898. |
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Post by mark2dgs on Nov 11, 2015 4:44:09 GMT -5
I went through the collection as well and yes- several photos after 1883. With the Klenze photo that started this thread looking to me to be post 1883, I didn't pay too much attention to the Taylor date..
1887 sounds very credible to me. The ID of Imasees/Little Bear and Lucky Man seems very clear. They are known to have camped in or around Fort Assiniboine in 1887. The soldier(s?) in the photo seems to support this.
Now I'm real courious as to the possible further ID of the rest of the men in the photo. Their presence in the view indicate that they are headmen or close kin to either chief.
The young man standing to the right of Imasees/Little Bear does have some resemblance to Kingbird or Skybird, His Younger brother. On some of the other group photos of the Montana Crees, there seems to be a like fellow present right of Imasees/Little Bear.Might be him..
IF the Klenze photo was taken before Little Poplar was shot by Ward for horsetheft, then HE might also be in the group. Again assuming them to be headmen. Comparing the known later photos of Little Poplars son for possible likeness my guess would be the defiant looking fellow holding a winchester 66' in the center of the view, immidiately left and slightly in front of the "captured" soldier.
Hard to confirm, but just a few observations..;-)
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Post by grahamew on Nov 11, 2015 7:09:06 GMT -5
Ah, I meant I was just trying to get a possible date for the friend of Custer/Crook photo. I think it still could feasibly be after he sought refuge in Montana, albeit early on.
Have you got other photos of the Montana Cree you could post? I think we'd be interested in seeing them, please.
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Post by mark2dgs on Nov 19, 2015 8:56:32 GMT -5
Hi again Grahamew,
For the Custer/Crook photo to be Imasees/Little Bear after He sought refuge in Montana, the Klenze photo would then have to have been taken at a later year than the supposed 1887 estimate, I would assume.
However Imasees/Little Bear and the refugee Cree are known to have wintered at Fort Assiniboine in both 1887 and 1888. Therefore I still think that the dating of 1887 for the Klenze is very plausible..
As for the Custer/Crook photo: If any credence is given to the writing on the photo I very much doubt it to be a young Imasees/Little Bear. If the Custer/Crook reference refers to the 1876 campaign and the indian in the photo served as a scout, it is hardly Imasees/Little Bear who in all likelyhood would be found directly under his fathers leadership at the time. Thus placing him in Canada around the treaty 6 negotiations. Big Bears band seems to be fairly tracable on the Canadian side of the border in 1876. Too much was going on for them at that time for it to be very plausible to go down south to join up as scouts in the sioux campaign, but again just my view. No proof ;-)
Don't know just yet how to post photos here, but if You are on Facebook there might be some photos there on my profile that You haven't seen. Just look for Mark Salter.
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Post by grahamew on Nov 22, 2015 12:07:45 GMT -5
Here's a Goff photo of a Montana Cree. He set up studios in Havre and at Fort Assiniboin in 1898 and when the troops left for the Spanish-American War later in the year, he focused on his studio in Havre:  |
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Post by mark2dgs on Nov 23, 2015 5:09:29 GMT -5
Very interesting. Yet another Montana Cree image I haven't seen before. I wonder who He is.. If that's a scalp braid He is brandishing, then He could be a veteran of the wardays against the Blackfoot. Not too many of these guys left with Imasees/Little Bear by the time I assume this photo was taken.
One who did however stay in Montana and was a veteran of the Blackfoot wars where Coyote also listed as "Poor Old Coyote". Although He kept a low profile in all the years the Cree risked deportation, He is also described as a member of the band with great standing and sence of humour. Who know's? Maybe a likely candidate..
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Post by mark2dgs on Nov 23, 2015 9:00:30 GMT -5
Found a birthdate for Imasees/Little Bear in Dempseys Big Bear biography: 1851. According to Dempseys book, Imasees/Little Bear stuck close to his father and older brother Twin Wolverine. Both where sons of Big Bears first wife Sayos. They had an older sister too: Nowakich.
Nothing in Dempseys book indicates that Imasees/Little Bear ever went south, prior to Big Bear taking his last followers across the line to Montana in the fall of 1879. At this time, Both Twin Wolverine and Imasees/Little Bear where family men.
All mention of both Twin Wolverine and Imasees/Little Bears wardays, refer alone to raids on the Blackfoot.
While there are mention of friction with their father, Big Bears leadership from about 1881 and up to 1885, there is no mention of leaving him up until the aftermath of the rebellion..
Little Poplar is descibed as becoming associated thru marriage to Imasees/Little Bears sister-in-law sometime during the early 1870s. He is also described as a wanderer that has spend considerable time among the Crow indians. This would make HIM a somewhat more likely contestant to the Custer/Crook photo. However there is no actual mention of him ever having served as a scout for the US Army..
For Him to be involved in the 1876 campaign, He would then have had to leave his family and band at a pretty crusial time on the canadian plains. Not impossible but maybe not all that likely..
The fellow on the Custer/Crook photo does have a "Crowlike" hairstyle, which sort of could support a Cree having spent time with them..
No proof all guesswork, though ;-)
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Post by grahamew on Nov 23, 2015 12:34:40 GMT -5
Thanks. I was willing to believe he was Cree, but not the bit about Custer and Crook. I've spent hours looking through old photos to find the same backdrop - including those featuring tribes with similar hairstyles - but to no avail. One day, maybe...
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Post by mark2dgs on Nov 23, 2015 15:22:08 GMT -5
Ha ha, same here! I've been looking for further info on the Custer/Crook image since I first came upon it around 2002. Hopefully something will come up..
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Post by grahamew on Jan 18, 2017 14:39:14 GMT -5
Little Bear - photographed in Browning Montana, later in life:  |
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