H. G. Klenze, Post Photographer, Fort Assinniboine, M.T.

[streamnetlibrary]

Photographs of noted Indian Chiefs
Views of Western Scenery.

Note from previous owner says taken between 1887 & 92.  He was a historian, so I assume he did some research into this phot.  Unfortunately, the owner who donated this photo to the library is not able to answer any questions about this object.  I'm looking to you all for assistance.

[Dietmar]

Welcome streamnetlibrary (from Oregon?),

wonderful picture, thanks for sharing.

Off the top of my head I would say these could be Cree men. One of them, standing right to the bearded white man bound to a tree, even has a resemblance to Imasees or Little Bear, the Cree leader who later settled at Rocky Boy reservation. Not sure though.

Let´s see what others think...


Best wishes

Dietmar

[Dietmar]

Other photographs of Klenze have this imprint on verso:

"H.G. Klenze, Successor to Barry / Photographer, Bismarck and Standing Rock, D.T. / Fort Assinniboine, M.T. Photographs of Noted Indian Chiefs. Views of Western Scenery."


If these were indeed Crees with Little Bear (note that he came down from Canada to Montana in 1885), there is a vague possibility that the man standing second from right, with rifle and white shirt, could be Lucky Man. Impossibel to proof, but food for thought...

[grahamew]

Interesting, Dietmar.

Isn't this the photo of the Cree before they returned to Canada? So, 1895? Blowing it up a little - while I can't be positive - I think I can see some of the individuals in the picture above - though I'm not sure I see Little Bear in the Klenze photo. I think the candidate you have in mind seems a little young, but maybe not:


Here's Little Bear in 1895, probably photographed by W H Taylor of Helena, Montana:

Edit: It is Little Bear in the Klenze photo...

[mark2dgs]

This was so good, that I finally had to go through the difficulty of joining, after having stalked Your site for years..;-)
This could very well be Imasees/Little bears band of refugee Cree. I agree that the likeness of both Imasees/Little Bear and Lucky Man is convincing.
If it is them, that would likely make this the earliest known photograph of Imasees/Little Bear and Lucky Man and members of their band.
I am aware of the "Chief Little Bear/Little Bean chief of the Crees, friends to Custer and Crook" photo, but seriously doubt it to be him for a number of reasons.
There's also the Loius Riel and Imasees/Little Bear photo that would predate this one, but again I have my doubts..

[grahamew]

I know the one with Riel - seems like a larger and older man. Imasees would be what, 30-35 during the Riel rebellion?



I was convinced this was him. I'm not sure when he was born, but I've seen mid-50s given as a date, so this could have been taken in the 80s; he looks around 30. The photographer F H Russell of Lethbridge photographed Big Bear's younger son, Horse Child, in and out of traditional dress. The backdrop doesn't look the same as the Big Bear photo, however, and the date I have is 85, though I can't imagine Little Bear hanging around to have his photo taken after the rebellion, so I guess it was very early that year or some time before that. I guess we need to see if we can find the same backdrop in any other photos...





Where the friend of Crook and Custer bit comes from, I don't know. Why would he have had any contact with either?

There's another photo of the Cree 'Little Bear' floating about on Wikipedia that is a Snell picture Little Bear of the Cheyenne.

[mark2dgs]

"Little Bear chief of the Crees, friendly to Custer and Crook" is written underneath the original photograph. First in pencil then in ink on top. Maybe due to a tare. Sometimes "Little Bean" all depending on source.
I once read somewhere, that a Cree served with the Crow scouts under Crook at Rosebud, but I have been unable to find it again or verify it. If true, I suppose that would lend some credibillity to the Little Bear/Little Bean image. The Sharps carbine seen in the photo seems to have an "L" incised in the buttstock. Maybe that could lead somewhere? Company "L"? The Crow scouts didn't show up at the scheduled time, when Crook took the troops to the field, so I am not shure they all got registered, when they where finally fetched by Grouard, Reesaw and Big Bat. Had no luck finding any scouts list from the campaign so far..

I agree that the big fellow in the Louis Riel photo looks bigger and older than Imasees/Little Bear does in other photos. I found a lesser known photo of Big Bear, that sort of looks more like him.
I'll see if I can find it in my files..

[mark2dgs]

"Little Bear chief of the Crees, friendly to Custer and Crook" is written underneath the original photograph. First in pencil then in ink on top. Maybe due to a tare. Sometimes "Little Bean" all depending on source.
I once read somewhere, that a Cree served with the Crow scouts under Crook at Rosebud, but I have been unable to find it again or verify it. If true, I suppose that would lend some credibillity to the Little Bear/Little Bean image. The Sharps carbine seen in the photo seems to have an "L" incised in the buttstock. Maybe that could lead somewhere? Company "L"? The Crow scouts didn't show up at the scheduled time, when Crook took the troops to the field, so I am not shure they all got registered, when they where finally fetched by Grouard, Reesaw and Big Bat. Had no luck finding any scouts list from the campaign so far..

I agree that the big fellow in the Louis Riel photo looks bigger and older than Imasees/Little Bear does in other photos. I found a lesser known photo of Big Bear, that sort of looks more like him.
I'll see if I can find it in my files..

[grahamew]

Thanks

If this is the same photo as above but mounted on white paper/card, then I think it was one collected by an artist over the last decade or so of the 19th century. Can't remember his name right now, but there are other images on the net - at SIRIS, I think. They're not all labelled correctly.

[grahamew]

According to this link, he stopped collecting in 1883, so if this is one of his images, it makes it even more interesting...

anthropology.si.edu/naa/exhibits/taylor/taylor.htm

amertribes.proboards.com/thread/314

[mark2dgs]

Interesting. I see He has the not often seen photo with "Reesaw" Louis Richards/Risauld, posing with Buffalo Bill.
If He stopped collecting in 1883, then I would doubt Him being involved. Had the photo been taken pre 1883, I would expect it to show Big Bear, rather than Little Bear/Imasees.
1887 Seems more likely to me. Little Bear and Lucky Man where both leaders then, hence "noted chiefs". The Crees wintered around and even in Fort Assiniboine if memory serves my right. I think they cut firewood for the soldiers. That could explain why we see them horsing around like this in the photo.

[grahamew]

I just ant to correct something I aid above: the Horse Child photos were taken in 1885 while Big Bear was in captivity, The white man is William Bleasdell Cameron, who testified in Big Bear's defence. There is another photo of Horse Child from this time,with his father and Poundmaker:

[Dietmar]

A.M. Hamilton, later secretary of the Saskatchewan Historical Society, who was present when Little Bear and Lucky Man were imprisoned for killing a man in the Frog Lake Affair, wrote in a letter in 1942 about Lucky Man:
“Lucky man was a dreadful looking rascal, thin and emaciated, with his face seamed by a thousand wrinkles.”
(see: The Montana Cree: A Study in Religious Persistence by Verne Dusenberry, Univ. of Oklahoma Press, page 38)

Not very flattering, but the description would match the man we see in the Klenze photo with - as I believe - Little Bear. However, I´m aware that this is not a real proof.

[mark2dgs]

That sounds very close to a discription I read too. I believe it was after they where rounded up and deported. Imasees/Little Bear and Lucky Man where arrested at the border on the murder charge from Frog Lake.
The account I read has them both sitting in an office. They are then described and the witness, and indian widow of Maybe Thomas Quinn? Is brought in to ID them. She claims She don't recognise them as the killers and charges are dropped, much to the dissapointment of the officials present. The writer of the account goes on to speculate that the woman is in all likelyhood covering for them.
A.M. Hamilton likely wrote the account, as they are very similar regarding what You mention of Lucky Mans looks. He died shortly after. This took place in 1896-97 as I recall.
With Lucky man dead and Imasees/Little Bear returning across the border to Montana, atleast we can say that the Klenze photo is pre 1896.
After I found the enlarge function yesterday, there is little doubt in my mind as to Imasees/Little Bear and Lucky Mans positive ID.
If the Klenze photo is from 1887, that would coincide with the year Little Poplar was shot and killed for alledged horsetheft.
Big Bears other son Kingbird identyfied in the 1884 Fort Pitt photograph is mentioned as having been with Imasees/Little Bear, when i fled to Montana in 1885. If so, that could also place him in the Klenze scene.
If The Klenze photo was takne before Little Poplar's death, He could also be present in the scene..

[grahamew]

If this is as early as 1887, it would explain why Little Bear looks considerably older in the Taylor portrait (especially bearing in mind what his people had gone through). I think I was way out when I suggested that the soldiers wouldn't be fooling around with the Cree: relations were reasonably good and the Cree did some work for the post; it was later that pressure was brought upon the army to move them back to Canada.

As for the photo of Little Bear stripped, I wonder how much older this is? Maybe not at all. Maybe it was taken when they first arrived in Montana. A cursory look at what Big Bear's Cree were up to in the late 1870s shows that any trips south of the border with or without Metis allies were likely to involve raiding other tribes and any whites in the region, so a photo opportunity would be unlikely. The earliest photo of Big Bear that I know is the one at Fort Pitt in 1884 and that's not a studio portrait. Would he have had his photo taken earlier than his father?

For no particular reason, here's a photo of Left Hand Boy, son of Little Poplar and brother in law of Imasees - taken about 1917:


Big Bear's father, the Ojibwe Black Powder, as sketched by Paul Kane:



And a Montana Cree photographed by Al Lucke (or a photograph collected by Al Lucke), circa 1890:


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