Joseph Flying Bye (Kangi Hotanka)

[Wakalapi]

I have heard much good about this Hunk-Papa elder. I would like to know more about him. Family history etc... Also photos would be good too.

Toksa Ake

Wakalapi

[Dietmar]

Wakalapi,

is this the Joe Flying Bye you speak of?


Flying Bye/Flying By also was a chief of the Hunkpapa in the early reservation period. I remember there are some photographs of him by D.F. Barry and others. There also was a Minicoujou of the same name.

Here are two Barry photos of Flying By:



I assume this is the Hunkpapa Flying By?! It could very well be that he was the son of an older chief of that name.
Is he an ancestor of Joe Flying Bye?

[Dietmar]

Joe Flying Bye has done some recordings. Here is a page of his record company with information about him:

www.centerrecords.com/

Joseph Flying Bye - Kangi Hotanka (Crow with a Loud Voice) was a pejuta wicasa (medicine man), akicita (decorated war veteran), and wakan wicasa (holy man) from the Hunkpapa tribe of the Lakota / Sioux Nation on the Standing Rock Reservation, better known for the leaders of the late 1890's such as Sitting Bull, Gall and American Horse.

Joe Flying Bye spent much of his early years helping his blind grandfather prepare medicines and pray over sick people. He would often lead his grandfather into town and listen to the old men talk of battles and life on the open plains. His grandmother would also tell him creation stories at night and in these ways he became a keeper of traditional knowledge and culture.

Many of the medicine men on the Standing Rock reservation today have received instruction from him.

On June 22, 2000 Joe Flying Bye passed into the spirit world. He will be dearly remembered by his family, friends and Lakota people.

[miyelo]

his cds are very good. he tells stories and drums and sings the old prayers.
lila washte!

[ephriam]

Flying Bye, Joseph (1921-2000). Also known as Kangi Hotanka Crow with a Loud Voice.

Joseph Flying Bye was born on the Standing Rock Reservation on June 5, 1921, the son of Nathan and Eloise (Grindstone) Flying Bye. Joseph had an older brother (Moses (b. Jan. 16, 1914-d. Dec. 1973) and a younger brother, Calvin (b. May 12, 1924-d. June 24, 2001). The family also had several other children who did not survive into adulthood.

Joseph appears to have overreported his age so that he could enlist in the army (later records record his date of birth as June 5, 1917). He served in the Army during World War II. He returned home in March 1945 after being wounded in the right leg.

ephriam

[Wakalapi]

Hau,

This is very good information. Thanks for the pictures too! I noted that in the first Barry photo, Flying By is wearing a cross. Interesting!

Wakalapi

[ladonna]

I knew Joe very well

[ephriam]

There were two Flying By (Flying Bye) families at the Standing Rock Agency, but they are not related.

The first family was that of Nathan Flying By (born circa. 1876) who grew up among the Yanktonai. He had three sons as mentioned above, including the noted holy man Joseph Flying Bye (1921-2000).

The second family was that of George Flying By (born circa. 1851-52), also known as Struck or Struck Plenty. He was the son of the noted Minneconjou leader Lame Deer and later a headman of a small band of Minneconjou who remained at Standing Rock.

Following the killing of Lame Deer in May 1877, the remnants of his band under his son, Crazy Heart or Foolish Heart, surrendered at the Spotted Tail Agency in northwest Nebraska in the fall of 1877, at about the time that Crazy Horse was killed. Most of these Minneconjou fled north to Canada later that winter. Fool Heart's band finally returned to the U.S. and surrendered at Fort Buford in 1880-81. And in the summer of 1881, they were transferred to the Standing Rock Agency with all the other northern bands surrendering from Canada.

In the spring of 1882, most of the Minneconjou and Sans Arc were transferred to the Cheyenne River Agency. Fool Heart's band however split. Half of the band went to Cheyenne River, while the remainder stayed at Standing Rock under Struck/Flying By's leadership. Beginning with the 1892 census, his name is recorded as George Flying By. While this band is generally listed in the Standing Rock census records as Hunkpapa, whenever he is directly asked, George Flying By states that he is Minneconjou.

George Flying By was interviewed by Walter Camp about his experience at the Little Bighorn (published in Hammer, Custer in '76).

The photographs by D. F. Barry posted above are of George Flying By, taken about 1885. I am guessing that the woman in the photograph is his wife, Hail Heart, and the boy is his son, First To Kill (later known as Victor Flying By). There is another photograph by Fiske in Donovin Sprague's book, The Standing Rock Sioux, p. 46.

Hope this is of help in clarifying the two families.

ephriam

[frank]

Heyyy...
I had this Flying By fellow as Miniconjou... so he is Hunkpapa?


Ephriam...if youre talking about this same guy can I use your bio about him on my website? And just to make it sure...which Flying By this guy in this pic now is?

[ephriam]

Frank:

The photograph you posted is of George Flying By Kinyan Hiyaye (c1851-1930). He was a Minneconjou, though he lived his later years on the Standing Rock Reservation. He is a younger son of the noted Minneconjou leader Lame Deer and a brother of Fool Heart. He was at the Little Bighorn, as was his entire family. He was interviewed twice by Walter Camp about his experience.

ephriam

[Dietmar]

There seems to had been another Flying By. Richard Hardorff states in „Indian Views of the Custer Fight“ (page 152) that “Flying By was a Scalp Shirt Wearer and was the principal Minneconjou chief during the Wagon Box Fight of 1867. He did not have any children and should not be confused with the Minneconjou of like name who was the son of Lone Horn” [sic, Lame Deer].
White Bull either names him one of the Mnicoujou chiefs at the Little Bighorn.

[ephriam]

FLYING BY Kinyan Hiyaye (c1810?-c1885). Minneconjou. Headman.

White Bull identified Flying By as one of the six traditional headmen of the Minneconjou. He was an active leader by the 1860s, including the Wagon Box fight. He appears to have been related to Lame Deer in some way. Kingsley Bray suspects that he was leader of the Wagleza-oin or Watersnake Earring band of Minneconjou.

Red Feather recalled that Flying By participated in the Battle of the Little Bighorn. "An old man, Flying By, who wore a shirt and had his hair tied behind his head, kept shouting, which encouraged the young men. He was the only old man in front with the young ones."

The elder Flying By was among the Minneconjou who joined Sitting Bull in Canada. He surrendered with his band in 1880-81 and was probably transferred to the Standing Rock Agency in the summer of 1881. He cannot be identified by name in the Sitting Bull Surrender Census, but he may be the elderly man named Crane (born circa. 1810) who was living in the lodge of Lame Deer's son, Fool Heart.

White Bull noted that Flying By did not have children to whom his leadership role could be passed. He appears to have given his name to Lame Deer's younger son, later known as George Flying By (hence the assumption that the Flying By and Lame Deer families are related in some way). Flying By died, according to White Bull's wintercount, in late 1885 or early 1886.

ephriam

[Dietmar]

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge, Ephriam.

My assumption (by pure guesswork, I admit) would also have been, that Lame Deer´s son could have been a nephew of this Flying By.

[Dietmar]

The Heritage auction site and several other auction sites offered this photo of Pass By:

PASS BY, MINICONJOU LAKOTA

c. 1885
Albumen cabinet card. Photographer unknown. "Pass By" printed in negative at lower right. Crease at lower right corner does not affect image. Minor soiling to back of mount. Better known as Flying By (Kinyan Hiyaye--compare Denver Public Library, Neg. No. B-498), this man was the son of the famous Miniconjou chief Whistling Elk (Hehaka Ho Tanka), called Lame Deer, killed in a battle with U.S. troops in the spring of 1877. Flying By succeeded his father as a Miniconjou leader. Here, he is dressed for the Grass Dance. His necklace is a tanned otterskin with a longitudinal slit. The choker and bandolier are made of dentalium shells strung between leather spacers. The feathered object in his right hand is a dance bustle, which would be tied around the waist and hang behind. Flying By has a roach headdress made of porcupine and deer hair, accented with a golden eagle feather. The cluster of feathers hanging at his left shoulder is attached to the base of the roach headdress. As the man danced, this would trail and bob behind him.

Does anyone see any resemblance in the Barry photo of Flying By?
And another question: Is it true that Lame Deer was also known as Whistling Elk?

[kingsleybray]

Thanks to Ephriam who just alerted me to check out the Joseph Flying Bye string. I managed to miss the discussion last summer!

On the subject raised by Dietmar: Is it true that Lame Deer was also known as Whistling Elk?

This seems to be an error. In one or two of his excellent articles on Lakota history, Harry H. Anderson stated that Lame Deer was the same man as Onpon Hoton Mani, a Lakota name with various translations e.g. Elk Bellows Walking, Elk Whistles Walking, or simply Whistling Elk. Literally the name means Loud-Voiced Elk Walking. It refers of course to the distinctive mating call of the bull elk, a symbol in Lakota thought for the sexual and procreative power of the male human.

A lot of writers, myself included, have followed Harry Anderson, who as said is a scholar of the first order on Lakota history.

Harry Anderson in citing the Elk Bellows Walking-Lame Deer identification referred to the references in the Lone Dog group winter counts published by Garrick Mallery. There Elk Bellows Walking is referred to as an older brother of Lone Horn (a fact confirmed to me by a family descendant at Pine Ridge), the Miniconjou head chief. He is the man photographed standing next to the seated Lone Horn in the famous photo taken at the 1868 Fort Laramie treaty. But there's nothing in the winter counts to indicate an identification with Lame Deer.

In 1986 I was fortunate enough to track down a copy of the printed minutes of the 1865 treaty councils at Ft Sully. Before talks proper began with the Miniconjous, the commissioners had read out the roll call of chiefs recognized by General Harney in 1856. In response to the names called it was learned that Elk Bellows Walking was not present, but had remained with the Miniconjou village out near the Black Hills. However, one of the Harney chiefs, Shoots Bear Running, was declared to be present and that he was the chief earlier named in the proceedings as Lame Deer.

It's worth noting that one of Lame Deer's sons bore the name Shoots Bear Running as well.

According to Chris Ravenshead's Miniconjou informants back in the early 1990s, Lame Deer's family belonged to the Wakpokiyan band, the same band as Lone Horn.

In summary I think it's time to break the identification of Elk Bellows Walking with Lame Deer.