Does this site plan to convert to utf-8?

[witkola]

This website is a wonderful resource of material!
In looking at the page source of this site, I noticed that this excellent website only supports ISO-8859-1. The ISO-8859-1 encoding, especially on a site like this that deals with Native American languages (at least the ones that use Unicode and UTF-8 Encoding), cannot correctly display text from the unicode standard repertoire of characters. Unicode also supports the characters from the International Phonetic Alphabet which is an excellent resource for those wishing to learn how to accurately pronounce the sounds of another language. The resources of the IPA for learning how to pronounce the sounds of the IPA characters are available online and are free.
Otherwise, it is a curious situation where a Native American such as I, a Lakȟóta, and others, would have to resort to using the technologically primitive and limited character set of the Romanized alphabet (ISO-8859-1) in order to deliberately enter text that is incorrect, awkward and misleading in order to communicate with the international community.
Is that irony? Or what? ;D

[emilylevine]

I have found that text which I copied from a Word document--in which I had used Unicode/New Lakota dictionary diacriticals--and pasted into posts here displayed OK. I don't understand all the technical aspects (OK, hardly any of the technical aspects), but you might try that.

[witkola]

Interesting. utf-8 is a protocol for a unicode character set. The particular dictionary you mentioned, as I recall, ignores unicode diacritics and apparently that's part of its appeal to those who use it. I was going to respond to a post on elsewhere on this site that has the text "Anyone know how to say "Little-White-Dove" in Lakota ... the best I came up with is Ská wakínyela ... which means White Dove ... little is èik ayela or another way of saying little is la èonala ..."
The response to that post was: "Here it is Cikala Ska Wikinyela."
Until I realized that this site used an ISO 8859-1 encoding, I was going to add this: "So cool! I'm from Rosebud. The way we say that there is, "Wakį́yela Są́ Číkɂala." (It would be pronounced "wah-KEE(nasalized)-ye-la" (means 'something that goes flying') + "son" (nasalized 'so') (means 'the color of downy feathers') + "CHEEK-a-la" (means 'animate little thing'). The "ɂ" between the "-k-" and "-a-" in Číkɂala is the glottal stop. It has the effect on the "-k-" and the "-a-" of the "-" in American "oh-oh".
So, there. Who knows? Hopefully it will work. ;D

[witkola]

Obviously, as I had thought, the encoding used by this site, ISO-8859-1, doesn't correctly display the unicode characters of utf-8. It is an unfortunate situation, I think, because Native American members, especially, who wish to post text of/about their tribes and languages are restricted to the standard Roman set of characters which, while sufficient for Western/Eastern Europe languages, does not support languages outside of this restricted, primitive and outdated range.

[Dietmar]

Hi Witkola,

and welcome. Your suggestion is a good one. Unfortunately we haven´t created this type of message board by ourselves, but used the tools and standards set by Proboards.

I´ll try to find out if there is a chance to include the utf-8 encoding, but right now I can´t promises anything, I´m afraid.

Best wishes

Dietmar

[hreinn]

Witkola; Yes you are right.
It is best to write words in as much detail as possible and as close to how they are spoken.
Because in that way you are more able to preserve the language, which for example has the benefit that future people will be able to read and understand what is written today.

Dec 20, 2011 11:30:15 GMT -5 witkola said:

The resources of the IPA for learning how to pronounce the sounds of the IPA characters are available online and are free.

Do you have any recommended links ?

I thought the spelling in the New Lakota Dictionary was the ultimate way of writing the Lakȟóta language.
Do you get more comprehensive spelling with utf-8 ?
Could you give an example with a word ?

As an example, in the New Lakota Dictionary by Jan Ullrich from 2008 the word Lakota is written as Lakȟóta.
To what standard does this text belong to ?
utf-8, ISO 8859-1, Unicode or something else ?

It is not difficult to imagine that after several centuries of writing the word Lakȟóta as Lakota, that the special h sound will be lost in the spoken language.

When you use the software Word and Excel and choose Insert and then choose Symbol.
To what standard does the symbols in Word and Excel belong to ?
utf-8, ISO 8859-1, Unicode or something else ?

As an example of how languages can develop through the centuries.
About 1000 years ago the same language was spoken in all Nordic countries (except in Finland).
Today there is a different versions in each country.
But the language has changed the least in Iceland.
Much because of the close fit between the writing and speaking of the language through the centuries.
That is to write words as close to how they are spoken, which for example incorporates IPA characters.
As I understand linguistic specialists it is unique in the world how common (non-linguistic) modern Icelanders are able to read ancient Icelandic text.
As I understand it, a common (non-linguistic) modern English speaking person would not understand ancient English text.

What is written today about Lakȟóta culture and language has much meaning because it is based on the old Lakȟóta oral tradition.
After 1000 years, what is written today about Lakȟóta culture and language will be considered as primary sources for the old Lakȟóta oral tradition.
So it matters how things are written today for the future understanding.


Hreinn