Ulzana's Raid (the movie)

[dianec]

I enjoyed Ulzana's Raid! Very good movie.
I was told by a relative that this film wasn't a great success at the time of it's release because Americans
didn't want to believe that American Natives were as ruthless as portrayed in this film.
You would have to be the judge of that opinion.
Load's of action in this movie.

[kayitah]

Can anyone, who speaks/understands Apache tell me, if the native language spoken in this movie is somekind of Apache dialect or not? Thanks

[Kalix]

One of my favorite westerns is Ulzanna's Raid. I thought the costumes, scenery, storyline were authentic. I have read the books, David Robert's "Once They Moved Like the Wind", Angie Debo"s "Apaches"', Sweeney's Mangas Colorado, Brown's "Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee" to name a few. I also read Geronimo's nephew account of Apache life. I don't understand why you think Apache's didnt rape women. White, Black, Mexican soldiers raped women. It was a different time and that behavior was acceptable. Let's not white wash history.

[jasper4]

Mar 12, 2011 13:15:21 GMT -5 kayitah said:

Thanks for your post, courrouge. I, like you, miss the people posting in here! Where are they all? Naiches, Jeroen, Perico, Second etc.?

I also like Geronimo mainly because of the beautiful scenery (great camera!), the sound, actors, the costumes etc. That the story is told from the memoirs of Lt. Britton Davis is a brillant idea. The bad thing is that it's not really basing on Davis' account (his book "The Truth about Geronimo"). It's less a historical narrative than much more a hollywood movie. There are too many cut-scenes as well as unneccessary and confusing subplots (like the Marshall scene, the bounty hunters...). I as well don't like that the Geronimo surrender has been completely taken out of it's historical context and accuracy. The movie is to fast-paced and discursive. It lacks a constructing story in which the watcher can come into it and get a feeling for the circumstances back then and what actually led to the problems. An enjoable and good movie, but could have been excellent.

The Missing, on the other hand, is a typical Hollywood story (good guys, bad guys, heroes, lots of emotion, foreseeable ending) that doesn't necessarily live from the Natives in it. Yet they are very nicely portrayed by their actors. I especially liked Jay Tavare as Kayitah and Juddson Keith Linn as Chauaiao. Best performance was by Jenna Boyd as Dot Gilkeson. The script is not very good, though, and the dialogues are Hollywood stereotype.

Another that comes to mind is "Blueberry". Not very suspenseful, but it gives a very sympathetic picture of the Chiricahua. Worth watching.
The german movies "Ulzana" (1974) and "Apachen" (1973) give a positive view as well.

Chiricahuas also have a short appearance in the (well worth watching) movie "Appaloosa".

By far the worst "Apache Movie" that I have ever seen was "Arrowhead". Simply dumb and racist.

Others (mediocre and bad ones) that come to mind: Taza, son of Cochise; Cuchillo; Apache Guns; Walk the Proud Land (didn't like that one); El Condor; Battle at Apache Pass; Broken Arrow; Apache Uprising; Fort Apache; Geronimo (mediocre movie with Joseph Runningfox); Geronimo (1962 with blue-eyed Chuck Connors); Buffalo Soldiers; Shalako; Cry Blood Apache; Gunsmoke - The last Apache, Stalking Moon; Stand at Apache River; War Drums; Indian Uprising; Apache Blood; Major Dundee; Mackenna's Gold

The missing is one the first where two elders Elbys Hugar and Berle Kanseah did the translation and ron howard I would say is not the average director. I enjoy the missing due to many of the old ways of say the brujo, and the owl and other things which I had never seen spoken of or even Tommy Lee Jones did do the ole white goes indian. the struggle or showing the way that women indian, white, mexican were taken to mexico. The cameo by Val Kilmer I thought it was a well done but the actor were well schooled to their characters. The area of new mexico was also good. Or I think 'Dot' was great and Jay Tavare as Kayitah and Steve Reevis as the scout for the brujo whose name escapes me. I agree with your feedback on geronimo american legend flimed in utah and not a script via the davis book alot more hollywood and way off on certain facts ie the scouts not chatto or gatewood stayed down at the base martine and kayitah wer scouts. Or maybe the fact when geronimo came down the first thing he asked gatewood with his hands held out shaking was 'If gatewood had anything to drink" Oh well all the others you spoke of are well my example to you is the BAD geronimo movie where chuck connors is geronimo boring forgive my writing goes to say It is late and had a long day with the grandkids Ulzana's Raid (the movie) was great

[kentemarie]

oh my goodness, that's my dad!!!! Thank you sooo much for posting this and placing his name with it.

[pullingup]

There should be a movie rating event of Chiricahua Apaches evaluating movies and providing commentary. I have seen no movies that could be recommended as providing consistently good depictions of Apaches. In "The Missing", even with Berle Kanseah and Elbys Hugar providing the Chiricahua language dialogue, most of the actors mangled their lines. The only one I noticed who did a really good job speaking the Chiricahua language was the Navajo actress in her very brief scene. Throughout the 20th century, movies and television have been the major contributors to the public's misconceptions about Apaches.

[dT]

thanks for the comments about Ulzana's Raid. I don't think I've even seen it. Maybe I'll go and rent it this weekend :-)

The movie "Geronimo An American Legend" has beautiful scenery and excellent character acting. It makes Geronimo seem very majestic - but I'm not sure that in real life he would have projected quite that way. But maybe the character who is portrayed in this movie would probably belong to one of the other great Apache chiefs and not Geronimo himself. The scenery in S. Utah is absolutely beautiful. The real action with Geronimo happened further south in the Sierra Madre of Mexico, but I guess those are "minor" details. Hahahaha! Southern Utah is an amazingly beautiful place :-)

Someone else mentioned the Good the Bad and the Ugly. It's a classic western - by an Italian producer. Hahahahaha! That says just about everything right there. But maybe I will get a cold beer and watch that movie this weekend too. Haven't seen it in a while.

dT

[naiches2]

'The Good the Bad and the Ugly' it's the really great movie! For centuries.
"Geronimo An American Legend" - IMHO - has many "little feeble" things.

[dT]

Well I caught up with Ulzanna's Raid on Netflix.
You can find it there if you are looking to see it.

The comments here are right on - that is a very good movie.
Considering when it was made - it's particularly well done :-)

dT

[inde]

How is it that all these people who are so interested in Apache culture and history are praising films that wrongly portray Apache people? It appears that people still adore the stereotypes despite their so called love for the culture and people.

[kayitah]

Hello inde, and welcome

While I understand your feelings, I can assure you that's not the case at all.

We all have the utmost respect for your people and its culture and, even though not always, we recognize stereotypes. Actually, both, movies and books are full of stereotypes.

What I enjoy about Ulzana's Raid is that it's one of the few older movies which uses Apaches (among other Native Americans) portraying the Natives in the movie. The movie is very well made in terms of camera work, the selection of actors/acting performance, costumes, and in that it depicts the Apaches as intelligent, highly mobile, and very disciplined fighters.

Of course, that doesn't give a complete picture of them as a people, but that's something we can't expect from Hollywood. It's not only the case with the Apache, it's also the same with other native peoples, whether american, asian, african, european, as well as with the ancient Celts, Greeks or Romans - I could go on and on. It's Hollywood and Hollywood doesn't care much for authenticity. Dancing with Wolves portrayed the Pawnee in a very bad way, many Japanese are not happy at all with The last Samurai, and the so-much-adored Brave Heart by questionable Mel Gibson is far from being authentic as well.

I am Swiss and we and our country/mentality are always portrayed the wrong way in movies. Russians are always portrayed the wrong way, and Italians and French are stereotyped as well.

In the end, most people have certain stereotypes of another race or culture. While I am a very respectful person who has an honest interest in your people, and still I met both when I was at San Carlos and Fort Apache - people who welcomed me with open arms, who were very happy to converse with me and who had an honest interest as well; and those who seemed to have prejudice, just because I'm white, even though I can't anything for either - neither for being white, nor for what Native American's had to go through because of the egocentric american colonialism and imperialism.

[dT]

inde ... I enjoyed that movie because it is more realistic than most. If you watch it - it does not appear that the producer of that movie had an "axe to grind" or that he was trying to perpetuate stereoypes. It did seem as though they were trying to give a more realistic portrayal of the types of people who existed in that day. The movie does not claim to represent all Nde people, but the actions of a few who choose the path of "hostiles" and leave the reservation.

what I found quite interesting about the movie was the attempt to address the issues of cruelty, violence, and hatred. it was quite interesting. I did not come away from the movie drawing any conclusions about Nde society versus white society ... but it did make me think about how people in general handle the issue of cruelty and how they react to it.

best wishes,
dT

[kayitah]

dt said it very well, thank you my friend.

I think the movie portrays the view the people had back in the day (1880s). It would be nonsense to make a movie entirely politically correct when back then bias was the norm. While Geronimo - An American Legend was beautifully made, it has too much of today's balanced mindset interwoven into it. Ulzana's Raid credits the Apache as excellent tacticians (the hostiles in the movie as well as Ke-ni-tay), shows their affection for loved ones (Ulzana's farewell to his son as well as his mourning, his sorrow and brokenness when he finds out about his son's death), depicts them as trustworty and honest (Ke-ni-tay), and it also shows their dignity and discipline.

[andersen]

I am a screenwriter myself and being in here, needless to say, I am really into Native American history, but I find it very hard to mention just one movie I really liked if we are talking the Indian aspect. I really love "westerns" like McCabe & Mrs. Miller and Unforgiven, because here we are talking true move making and art. Plus of course a series like Deadwood. Mindblowing! But getting it right , when we are talking native America, seems very difficult.

[dT]

anderson

if you take a look at that movie called Ulzana's Raid ... it's quite interesting. In some ways it reminds me of Apocalypse Now by Copola. The setting involves a specific time period and war - but the themes are much more universal in nature. Copola used the Vietnam war to make a statement about the journey of the human soul into darkness and madness. Similarly, the writer and director of Ulzana's Raid make powerful statements about human prejudice, cruelty and anger. It's quite interesting.

The theme shows up in the development of the two white men who play leading roles ... the young lieutenant who is a Christian, and the older tracker played by Burt Lancaster. The lieutenant starts off as a Christian who is lecturing his associates about why his "enemy" should be treated with compassion. But after being confronted with real cunning and cruelty - he struggles with anger, hostility and personal hatred. On the other hand, the white tracker (Burt Lancaster) initially comes across as hardened man who deals with practical realities, but later he does not condemn the Apaches fighting him in the wilderness. This movie is really making quite an interesting statement about the human character - and that's why I think the producer had greater things in mind than just a depiction of the Apache Wars. In addition, the Apache scout (named Kayitene?) turns out to be the noblest of them all - because he is treated with a lot of indignity, yet shows the highest level of courage and integrity. Another great irony.

It's quite an interesting movie.
I'm surprised I have never seen this film before.
You can find it on NetFlix.

dT