|
|
Post by bobby on May 8, 2011 19:17:48 GMT -5
Hey guys, is it possible that Jason N. Betzinez was a part of the group which arrived at Carlisle April 30 1887 ? Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by Mithlo on May 8, 2011 19:35:45 GMT -5
Jason was indeed in the group!
|
|
|
|
Post by coeurrouge on May 9, 2011 11:43:51 GMT -5
Hey guys, is it possible that Jason N. Betzinez was a part of the group which arrived at Carlisle April 30 1887 ? Looks like him. |
|
|
|
Post by bobby on May 9, 2011 13:29:40 GMT -5
Do you by chance have a higher resolution of this pic?  This picture is of Kesetta Roosevelt and Jack Mather, Lipan Apache children that were captured and sent to Carlisle. Hey NDE, a higher resolution of this photo. Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by bobby on May 9, 2011 14:01:44 GMT -5
Ernest Hogee and Jason Betzinez. Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by bobby on May 9, 2011 14:03:54 GMT -5
Caleb Keckjolay (?), Jason Betzinez, Beatrice Kiahtel (?), and Maggie Lauethla (?). Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by bobby on May 9, 2011 14:05:05 GMT -5
Jason Betzinez, Effie Pontzke (?), and Maggie Pontzke (?). Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by naiches2 on May 9, 2011 14:32:23 GMT -5
Thank you for identification and images, bobby!
But who're Pontzke? Caleb Keckjolay (?), and Maggie Lauethla? Ernst Hogee is boy from famous group photos (Chiricahua children are just and after 4 month arrived).
|
|
|
|
Post by bobby on May 9, 2011 17:01:11 GMT -5
Beatrice Kiahtel was a part of the same group as Ernest Hogee, Hugh Chee,
and others.
According to what I found, Caleb or Galeb Keckjolay was Chiricahua
and was buried at Carlisle "Post Cemetery", June 15 1887.
Maggie or Margaret Lauethla or Iahanetha was also Chiricahua
and was buried at Carlisle "Post Cemetery", October 11 1889.
|
|
|
|
Post by naiches2 on May 9, 2011 18:03:42 GMT -5
Beatrice Kiahtel was a part of the same group as Ernest Hogee, Hugh Chee, and others. According to what I found, Caleb or Galeb Keckjolay was Chiricahua and was buried at Carlisle "Post Cemetery", June 15 1887. Maggie or Margaret Lauethla or Iahanetha was also Chiricahua and was buried at Carlisle "Post Cemetery", October 11 1889. Great! But you mistaked about Caleb''s date of death.  |
|
|
|
Post by Mithlo on May 9, 2011 20:13:19 GMT -5
Effie Pontzke, Effie Zaienah, Effie Binday (married name) all the same person. She was born in 1877, the younger sister of Geronimo's wife Zi-yeh. Effie married Samuel Binday at Mount Vernon Barracks. She died here at Fort Sill in 1900 at age 23. Jason Betzinez, Effie Pontzke (?), and Maggie Pontzke (?). |
|
|
|
Post by bobby on May 9, 2011 22:27:50 GMT -5
Effie Pontzke, Effie Zaienah, Effie Binday (married name) all the same person. She was born in 1877, the younger sister of Geronimo's wife Zi-yeh. Effie married Samuel Binday at Mount Vernon Barracks. She died here at Fort Sill in 1900 at age 23. Jason Betzinez, Effie Pontzke (?), and Maggie Pontzke (?). Is Effie the one sitting or standing? |
|
|
|
Post by Mithlo on May 9, 2011 22:50:17 GMT -5
Effie is the girl that is standing. Effie Pontzke, Effie Zaienah, Effie Binday (married name) all the same person. She was born in 1877, the younger sister of Geronimo's wife Zi-yeh. Effie married Samuel Binday at Mount Vernon Barracks. She died here at Fort Sill in 1900 at age 23. Is Effie the one sitting or standing? |
|
|
|
Post by bobby on May 9, 2011 23:02:09 GMT -5
Effie is the girl that is standing. Is Effie the one sitting or standing? Thanks a lot, appreciate it. |
|
|
|
Post by kayitah on May 10, 2011 4:35:11 GMT -5
Effie is the girl that is standing. Is Effie the one sitting or standing? Very interesting, thanks Mithlo. Is it true that Samuel Binday was part Chiricahua and part Western Apache, and the son of the prominent shaman She-neah? And are there any known photographs of him (besides the group photograph at Mount Vernon)? I couldn't find much about him, except for the following (p. 64 ff.) books.google.ch/books?id=6XRotF4iE7QC&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=%22sam+binday%22&source=bl&ots=0Jd6YWDFLu&sig=2C3-HV8OD18pZumT6otkJzJ5OeI&hl=de&ei=DAbJTeTjH4WXOqGY_OAH&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22sam%20binday%22&f=falseSadly, his and Effie's children (Fannie, Hobson, and Vincent) all died in Oklahoma. www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gsr&GSln=Binday&GSiman=1&GScid=97926&It seems there was another son, Matthew Binday. There's a novel by James Olson which is supposedly basing on historical facts. Olsen states: "While the adult Chiricahua men and women were incarcerated in Florida, many of the children were involuntarily separated from their families and transported to the Indian Industrial School at Carlisle, Pennsylvania in an effort to civilize them.. I decided to tell the unique story of the final disposition of the Chiricahua Apaches from the viewpoint of Matthew Binday, one of the children who had been sent to the Carlisle school."booksbyolson.com/What happened to Matthew? |
|
