xframe
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by xframe on May 3, 2011 3:27:37 GMT -5
I just heard in the news that the US military gave Bin Laden the codename "Geronimo". If you ask me I think this is a very disrespectful and offending thing for all Apache descendants.
Very interested in your opinion on that?
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Post by jeroen on May 3, 2011 7:54:14 GMT -5
I agree with you 100%, xframe! To compare Geronimo with Bin Laden is insulting to the Apache people. This morning I was contacted by Dutch national tv to give my opinion; a comparison between an international terrorist (for many years even sponsored by the US government) and a Native American leader who fought for his country, his people and his freedom, is offensive indeed and shows very little historical sense on the part of the US military.
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xframe
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by xframe on May 3, 2011 8:36:56 GMT -5
I agree with you 100%, xframe! To compare Geronimo with Bin Laden is insulting to the Apache people. This morning I was contacted by Dutch national tv to give my opinion; a comparison between an international terrorist (for many years even sponsored by the US government) and a Native American leader who fought for his country, his people and his freedom, is offensive indeed and shows very little historical sense on the part of the US military. It's great to hear that you had a chance to talk about this on the Dutch TV. At least you reached a big audience with your point of view. I did post it in the forum of the German magzine "Der Spiegel" (comparable with Time Magazine in the Staates maybe). I can tell that 90% of the reactions to it shared your and my opinion. |
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Post by coeurrouge on May 3, 2011 12:26:04 GMT -5
I am too shocked that Operation Nickname of Ben Laden was Geronimo...But not surprised. It just shows that US Army learning History was from its archives. If a Native participated of the commando, it would be interresting what he's thinking about that.
Why they didn't use the nickname King Georges.
Natives, protested about !!! We are with you from our countries!!!
The irony is that the commado was certainly transported by Blackhawks helicopter and protected by Apaches helicopters.
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Post by penjady on May 4, 2011 9:45:28 GMT -5
My Opinion on this matter.
As a Tribal Member, I am saddened to think that our own blood and relation is being compared to the likes of Hitler and Osama.
I, like many Americans, was happy and glued to the TV on Sunday evening as the news of Osamas death. I felt great pride as an American to witness such an end to one of the most deadliest unprovoked attacks on the U.S.
Being a brother of a US Marine and a Firefighter, I have always felt the pride of my country, even though I have not served any time.
It alarms me that the US continues to treat Native Americans, in this case Apache, as second class citizens. Our land was raided and desecrated in the name of Manifest Destiny. Our people were killed and our race nearly exterminated in the name of Christianity.
We, as Apaches, did what any other people will do: Fight back. We were not terrorist then and definitely not now.
Geronimo's family was attacked by Americans and Mexicans. All Apache families were attacked and killed. Our leaders, being true warriors, defended our right to live and exist. And are now living and exist because of them.
I am truly disappointed in Washington that our way of life is questioned again.
This is not a question of Political Correctness but rather a case of common courtesy and respect to the common man.
To the UNM professor Paul Hutton and Fort Sill Historian, Torina Spivey, let the US Govt use your fathers/mothers good name in nicknaming Osama. We will see your tune change rather quickly.
As for any other codenames, I would have recommended "Chaa'" because that is what Osama is.
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xframe
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by xframe on May 4, 2011 13:44:31 GMT -5
penjadythank you for your answer! I was especially interested to know how a tribal member will feel about. It's one thing to feel angry about that issue as a white guy with only great sympathy for your people compared to be directly confrontated with that insult. Of course I'm not surprised about your statement and I'm very very sorry about that shame the US government did here. If some official native voice will stand up against it, pls keep us posted! Thank You!!!
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Post by tiswin on May 4, 2011 18:04:06 GMT -5
deleted post
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xframe
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by xframe on May 5, 2011 5:24:38 GMT -5
I just read that Jeff Houser wrote an open letter to Obama you can found here: www.fortsillapache-nsn.govThere is a huge article today in the German "Spiegel Magazine" that many american natives are shocked and outraged concering the "Geronimo" nick name for OBL. It's good to see that many people are not just take it. |
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Post by akhummingbird on May 6, 2011 3:09:09 GMT -5
I read Jeff Houser's letter and found it eloquent/ well written. But you know, I have to admit, when I first heard about the code name Geronimo, I did not at all think the intention was to equate Bin Laden with the great Apache Leader. I read that Geronimo was the code name for the operation (not the person). Thus, I immediately got the impression the code name was referring to the WWII paratrooper battle cry - basically "Be as brave as Geronimo - and jump into battle". See the story at the following link: www.b-westerns.com/geronimo.htm |
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Post by jeroen on May 7, 2011 8:12:15 GMT -5
This image, taken at Fort Sill (and posted earlier in the Quanah Parker thread), is said to show Geronimo's wife (red mark)... if so, is this Ziyeh?  |
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sasja
New Member
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Post by sasja on May 7, 2011 9:17:01 GMT -5
She might be as she looks a lot like this women, who Angie Debo has identified as Zi-Yeh in her book Geronimo. She seems to have the same high cheekbones. Attachments:
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Post by jeroen on May 11, 2011 11:31:51 GMT -5
A slightly different version of those posted here earlier as part of a series of photographs taken on the same occasion, in 1904:  |
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Post by dianec on May 13, 2011 0:59:58 GMT -5
Wow! I am so impressed with these photos! I have seen some of them, but there are so many I have never seen!
I am extremely fascinated with Geronimo. To me he is certainly one of the most interesting
men on the face of this earth. What he went though in his life, makes me feel like whatever I
go though is nothing to what this man went though. I get courage just by looking at him.
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Post by dianec on May 13, 2011 1:02:46 GMT -5
I just heard in the news that the US military gave Bin Laden the codename "Geronimo". If you ask me I think this is a very disrespectful and offending thing for all Apache descendants. Very interested in your opinion on that? What can you expect from this rogue government? It is very disrespectful and offending. |
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Post by jeroen on May 31, 2011 11:27:34 GMT -5
Earlier, we have been discussing several of Geronimo's wives, but I have been wondering about his last spouse, named Azul... Looking closely, it occurred to me she may well be the same woman as the one identified as Marianetta... So far, I have not found any reference about her death in Florida/Alabama... What do you guys think?  |
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