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Post by naiches2 on Feb 12, 2011 17:09:20 GMT -5
Geronimo and Naiche at Fort Bowie before departuring to Florida, 1886  zoom Attachments:
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sasja
New Member
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Post by sasja on Feb 19, 2011 11:46:42 GMT -5
Does any one know which wife of geronimo this is? Thanks! Attachments:
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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 19, 2011 13:14:44 GMT -5
she was the last wife of Geronimo, Azul. They lived with the Guydelkon Family, whose azul was related, until Geronimo died on february, 17th, 1909.
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sasja
New Member
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Post by sasja on Feb 19, 2011 17:41:19 GMT -5
Thank you coeurrouge.
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Post by jeroen on Feb 20, 2011 15:13:35 GMT -5
Finally got a better version of Naiche and Geronimo standing, at Fort Bowie, a variety of the image posted above by Naiches:  |
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Post by jeroen on Feb 24, 2011 2:37:25 GMT -5
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Post by jeroen on Feb 24, 2011 2:38:17 GMT -5
Here it is:  |
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sasja
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Post by sasja on Feb 26, 2011 13:38:29 GMT -5
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toby
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Post by toby on Feb 26, 2011 22:19:27 GMT -5
Hello, I just like to agree with those that point out that the man standing next to Geronimo in the first photo Dietmar posted is definitely not Fun, he is a man that I have always known as Jolsanny, although I see that several people have now named him as Tsisnah, whatsmore, they have further mistakenly identified the man standing next to Natches in the photo where he is mounted on a mule, as Tsisneh, when he is in fact Fun. Both Fun and Jolsany or Tsisnah, can be seen together in several of the photos already posted on the board, so there can be no doubt that they were two very different men. Fun can be seen standing next to Geronimo in the photograph where the warriors all face Fly's camera, and there, in one of these, the man named Jolsany or Tsisneh, can be seen standing third from the left in the back row. Both of them are also in another photo which grahamew posted, this time we see Fun mounted in the back row, and Jolsany standing second from the left in the second row. Just to confuse matters even more, I have seen the man I know as Jolsany, named Ulzana by some, I would appreciate it if they could point me back to he evidence for this?. Confusion too in a photo on page 1 of this thread, the one where the 3 men standing with Geronimo are named as Nanne, Ozone, Chihuahua, and Loco. In my opinion the man named as Loco is actually Fun, and the man named Ozone is actually Loco. Finally, a couple of questions. Given that neither man is present in either of the train photographs, { I would argue that that’s not Fun seating extreme left in one of them,} does anyone know what happened to either of them after the surrender? The other question concerns all those wonderful photographs Fly took. Does anyone know how many he took, or if there are any that just never get published because they are either too fuzzy or just not good enough? I have seen one attributed to him which is a long long distance shot of some apaches and a few ponies clustered around a few crude brush shelters, but even using a zoom it is hard to make anything out. Finally, in my humble opinion that is not the same man; the close ups of Charlie's mystery man in white, the face seems somewhat different, on the other hand, looking at it again . . . .I’m not so sure. Incidentally, he can been seen standing very prominently to the left of Geronimo, with Natchez mounted behind them both, in a third photo I seen of the gathered warriors facing the camera. Low Dog |
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toby
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Post by toby on Feb 26, 2011 22:21:20 GMT -5
Hello, I just like to agree with those that point out that the man standing next to Geronimo in the first photo Dietmar posted is definitely not Fun, he is a man that I have always known as Jolsanny, although I see that several people have now named him as Tsisnah, whatsmore, they have further mistakenly identified the man standing next to Natches in the photo where he is mounted on a mule, as Tsisneh, when he is in fact Fun. Both Fun and Jolsany or Tsisnah, can be seen together in several of the photos already posted on the board, so there can be no doubt that they were two very different men. Fun can be seen standing next to Geronimo in the photograph where the warriors all face Fly's camera, and there, in one of these, the man named Jolsany or Tsisneh, can be seen standing third from the left in the back row. Both of them are also in another photo which grahamew posted, this time we see Fun mounted in the back row, and Jolsany standing second from the left in the second row. Just to confuse matters even more, I have seen the man I know as Jolsany, named Ulzana by some, I would appreciate it if they could point me back to he evidence for this?. Confusion too in a photo on page 1 of this thread, the one where the 3 men standing with Geronimo are named as Nanne, Ozone, Chihuahua, and Loco. In my opinion the man named as Loco is actually Fun, and the man named Ozone is actually Loco. Finally, a couple of questions. Given that neither man is present in either of the train photographs, { I would argue that that’s not Fun seating extreme left in one of them,} does anyone know what happened to either of them after the surrender? The other question concerns all those wonderful photographs Fly took. Does anyone know how many he took, or if there are any that just never get published because they are either too fuzzy or just not good enough? I have seen one attributed to him which is a long long distance shot of some apaches and a few ponies clustered around a few crude brush shelters, but even using a zoom it is hard to make anything out. Finally, in my humble opinion that is not the same man; the close ups of Charlie's mystery man in white, the face seems somewhat different, on the other hand, looking at it again . . . .I’m not so sure. Incidentally, he can been seen standing very prominently to the left of Geronimo, with Natchez mounted behind them both, in a third photo I seen of the gathered warriors facing the camera. Low Dog |
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Post by jeroen on Mar 7, 2011 17:30:21 GMT -5
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Post by kayitah on Mar 9, 2011 18:24:53 GMT -5
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Post by jeroen on Mar 13, 2011 7:28:23 GMT -5
Interesting link, but there are certainly several points that are open for discussion, for example the assumption that a sister of Geronimo was married to Taza (obviously based on Nino Cochise's book, which in my opinion is a fraud). Also, Geronimo was married to a woman Mary Loto?  |
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Post by Second on Mar 13, 2011 13:37:39 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I just recvd an ISBN for my book and I have entered the last phase of publishing. My book is titled Second Jumper, searching for his bloodline. Written by Sigfried R. Second-Jumper.
It has taken me 5 yrs to write it. It starts out with the surrendering of the Chiricahuas and their journey to Florida as prisoners of war. While in Florida, my great grandparents were separated from the bulk of the Tribe and shipped to Cuba. An event witnessed by other prisoners, and recorded in their oral history and songs.
Also recorded and photographed by my family are my great grandparent’s arrival in Cuba, their struggles, sacrifices and accomplishments. Some of my great grandparent’s descendents began migrating to Florida, settling on the outskirts of the Florida Everglades. It was there that I discovered a Miccosukee Indian camp tucked deep in the swamps. Little did I know I was meeting the remnants of the only Unconquered Nation, The Florida Seminoles. In time I learned to master the art of breaking in horses, wrestling alligators, followed by 15 yrs of dancing and singing among them. These events were captured and will be shown with never before seen photographs.
Through their encouragement, I along with my family set out on a trip across country, in search of our long lost Apache relatives. A long journey that started in St. Augustine, FL, Oklahoma, Arizona, ended at the Mescalero Apache Reservation in NM. Upon arrival at Mescalero, I was welcomed and accepted by ex-prisoners of war, the Chiricahuas and ultimately my long lost relatives. Unaware of my past tribal history, I was inaugurated into the medicine circle as a singer for the Chiricahua Crown Dancers. It was there, that I have and continue to learn the traditional ways of the Chiricahuas. After many years of loosing members and traditions, we all decided to record and preserve our ways along with our daily activities for future generations. For the first time ever, the reader will enter into the sacred tepee of the Crown dancers and learned what takes place prior to ceremonies. All of it has been done with the consent of all members.
When the Seminoles learned that I was recording these stories, they asked me to include theirs as well. Some of these tales and photographs have been kept by members of both groups for decades as family treasures. I am honored to have been trusted to write them as they were told to me. All stories were reviewed by all participants prior to publishing to assure that they are told as they would want their great grandchildren to hear them.
Unlike many or most books written about these two groups, this one is done from within. As a result, the participants felt comfortable revealing stories long suppress by fear and mistrust. There is only half a page of references and over 300 pages of the real stories of the Tigers of the Human race, the Chiricahua Apaches and the Only Unconquered Nation, the Florida Seminoles.
I have dedicated my book to future Chiricahua and Seminole descendents but it really pertains to all humans as preserving their ancestral ways is just as important.
I will keep you all posted as soon as my book is available.
Sincerely,
Siggy Jumper
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Post by gregor on Mar 27, 2011 17:47:37 GMT -5
Hi folks, recently I came across this colored "Los embudos"- picture.  Has anybody a better resolution of this photograph? Gregor |
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