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Post by grahamew on Jun 8, 2009 14:27:10 GMT -5
Some more images of Geronimo Reed and Wallace:  Read and Wallace?  Jose, Charley, Chino, Zeele, Toclanney, Goyathlay ,Gokliz, Naiche, Noche, Chihuahua, Fun, Loco, Nana, Ka-ah-te-may, Bish Touyeh, Magnus, Becalthey, Chatto 87- 88:  An alternative to the usual Fly shot of the council with Crook:  At Fort Sill, 1894-99:  Fort Sill, post-1900:  Fort Bowie, September 1886:  101 Ranch, June 11 1905 - Miller's Wild West Show:  n.d.  n.d.  Fly, 1886:  n.d.  |
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Post by jeroen on Jun 9, 2009 0:57:34 GMT -5
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Post by jeroen on Jun 10, 2009 3:51:59 GMT -5
and this is a nice one too...  |
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Post by jinlian on Jun 10, 2009 6:37:42 GMT -5
Beautiful image. An idea about the identities of the other people in the photo?
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Post by charlie on Jun 10, 2009 8:14:21 GMT -5
Who is, in the photo labelled "Fly, 1886", the warrior standing second from left (all white dressed)? He appears in many images of Fly, but i never see his name..... I belive that he was a very important warrior or chief.
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Post by Dietmar on Jun 10, 2009 9:46:39 GMT -5
Hi Charlie, looks like Yanozha, Geronimo´s brother-in-law. Standing next (right) to him is Tsisnah, I believe. Naiche, of course, is standing far right: |
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Post by charlie on Jun 11, 2009 1:58:09 GMT -5
Hi Dietmar. I have another line-up of the image;
the five men standing are (L to R): LAZIYAH - unknown - FUN - GERONIMO - NAICHE
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Post by jeroen on Jun 11, 2009 7:17:38 GMT -5
Hello Charlie and Dietmar, Yanozha is kneeling in the background (second from left), which is more obvious in this alternate Fly photo of the same group...  Also, I doubt that the warrior with the war cap is Laziyah, but rather Chihuahua, however I agree that the warrior with the dark coat is in fact Fun, though Tsisnah looked a lot like him (they were closely related). Like Charlie I have been wondering who the tall guy in white is. Probably he was in of the Chihuahua/Ulzana band that did surrender after the March 1886 talks. |
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Post by charlie on Jun 15, 2009 9:36:53 GMT -5
I never seen images of the important warriors TSISNAH and KAYTAH. And you?
At regarding LAZIYAH, he also appear standing in second row, with a similar strange war cap, in the photos about the famous council of 1886 at Canyon de los Embudos. And also CHIHUAHUA was present in that occasion, sitting near NANA.
Our mysterious "man in white" remain a rebus. It's incredible: he always was in front row in the various photos made at the time, then he surely was a great chief.
What a pity don't know his name!
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Post by jinlian on Jun 15, 2009 10:10:15 GMT -5
I never seen images of the important warriors TSISNAH and KAYTAH. And you? Charlie, there's a photograph of Kaytah and Naatehn as old men in Geronimo's autobiography:  |
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Post by grahamew on Jun 15, 2009 10:25:02 GMT -5
Is this same man in the centre?  |
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Post by jeroen on Jun 16, 2009 4:18:24 GMT -5
Yes, that is the warrior we are taliking about... Could this be the same man as the one in this photo with the sash? The one in the center is Naiche and Fun is beside him...  Charlie, I agree it is extremely difficult to correctly identify all the Apaches in the Fly photos, but do you mean that the man between Nana and Geronimo in the council photo is Chihuahua? I thought this was Conception, one of the translators... Here's is his portrait taken in Washington later that year...  By the way, have you noticed that there are actually two council photos that are almost identical? Compare this one with the one posted by Dietmar in the Taza thread, Naiche is visible in this one (extreme left, behind soldiers) and there are two more warriors standing in the background (behind Geronimo)... only Crook doesn't seem to have moved at all...  |
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Post by charlie on Jun 16, 2009 6:03:55 GMT -5
Thanks Jinlian! Grahamew and Jeroen: yes, the man is him!
Returning to the first photo of the conuncil, posted at page 1 of this thread, and more clear than the one posted by Jeroen, are recognizable:
in first row Geronimo and Nana; to the left of Nana is Noche (or Not-shi) with the dark hat.
Standing, in the last row, are:
Tsisnah (?) - Ulzana - Lazyah (always with the strange war cap...).
In front of Ulzana, sitting, is Chihuahua. Behind gen. Crook are (sitting) Yanozha and Fun.
These are the names that i have. It's right?
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Post by grahamew on Jun 16, 2009 14:11:08 GMT -5
I've seen the man in white's identity given as Naiche. Can't remember the book but the women and children to the left are supposed to be his family. However, this man appears in the same picture as the hat-wearing man long-identified as Naiche... I don't think it's the same man wearing the sash. Headband is different. Over what time period was this group of photos taken? I'd like to see more of Naiche in the council photo to see what he's wearing. Meanwhile, I came across this photo identified as Geronimo:  |
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Post by wolfgang911 on Jun 16, 2009 16:55:22 GMT -5
"Geronimo"by Barbara Ping Geronimo was a Bedonkohe He farmed and joined the Dutch Reformed Church, which expelled him because of his inability to resist gambling. that's funny to learn that Geronimo and I have the same background and maybe jeroen (dutch form for geroenimo) did you guys notice while identyfing on the sill pictures (so impressing as we look to the few warriors pictures really 'doing it') that there are 4 kids half the size of the men holding guns! 12 year old warriors out there. |
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