Jacob White Eyes

[jbollinger3]

Though my minimal research and talking with my Father, born, Albert "Rusty" PoorBear, then changed to his mothers last name, Albert "Rusty" Whiteeyes, then changed again...My dads brother first name is James Clarence, in which was to be named after their mothers dad, Clarence James Whiteeyes but through records has soemhow been written as James Clarence but we call him Uncle Butch...Anyhow, my grandmother name was Mildred Whiteeyes whose father was Clarence James Whiteeyes and mother was Stella Romero.

[Dietmar]

Welcome jbollinger3,

and thanks for sharing the above.

Best wishes

Dietmar

[alexandre]

Hello,

I am a French student and I am working on the correspondence between Jacob White Eyes and the Marquis Folco de Baroncelli in the 1910s. Being acquainted to his descendants, the latter were good enough to give me a copy of both side of the correspondence. I guess it might interest some of you.
Should you wish so, I would be happy to provide you with all necessary information.
I would like to know whether Jacob White Eyes or some members of his family where involved in the Wounded Knee massacre (or any other battle).

Yours sincerely.

[alexandre]

Nov 17, 2010 17:44:33 GMT -5 kingsleybray said:

The 1890 Pine Ridge census lists the family of White Eyes as belonging to the Iwayusota band of Oglalas, Medicine Root District. Iwayusota (translated as Used Up by the Mouth, or Used Up by Begging) was a sub-group of the Kiyaksa (or Kiyuksa), i.e. the Southern Oglalas whose hunting grounds had traditionally been south of the Platte River in sw. Nebraska and neighboring sections of Kansas and Colorado.

Anyway, here is the family as listed in the 1890 census.
White Eyes, Father, age 65 (born ca. 1825)
Assiniboine, wife of White Eyes, age 65
Jacob, son, age 21, born 1869
Pretends to run, grandson, age 12
Small Fish, grandson, age 10
Turns Around, grandson, age 7.

The 1892 Pine Ridge census lists the family as follows:
White Eyes, age 67
Old Woman, wife, age 63
Sword Red Fish, grandson, age 13
Frank Little Thunder, grandson, age 14.

Jacob is not listed. I presume Sword Red Fish (Lakota name given as Hohan Luta) is equivalent to Small Fish of 1890, and that Frank Little Thunder is Pretends to run of 1890.

I don't know about the Cheyenne connection, but White Eyes the elder is said to have been a son of Little Thunder, the Brule chief. In 1868 he was photographed by Alexander Gardner at Ft Laramie as part of a group including Spotted Tail. That same year he was part of the group that went from the Upper Platte Agency, then located at North Platte, Nebraska, to the the new Whetstone Agency on the Missouri. Interestingly he was then listed as an Oglala leader. In 1872 White Eyes went to Washington as part of the Brule delegation led by Spotted Tail. Again, Gardner made portraits of the delegation including White Eyes. Maybe Dietmar could post these pictures up.

I am interested in all these families, and I was interested to read your mention of Millicent, daughter of Fast Whirlwind, being married to Elbridge Gerry. Is she the same woman sometimes called Millicent Red Kettle? And if so, do we know what the relationship was between Fast Whirlwind and the Red Kettle family? Fast Whirlwind was the chief met by Francis Parkman in 1846 and called simply The Whirlwind. He was the leading chief of the Southern Oglalas in the 1840s, after the death of Bull Bear.

I hope this helps, and looking forward to your updates
Kingsley Bray

[alexandre]

Hello,

I am a French Student working on Jacob White Eyes, and especially on the correspondence between him and a French aristocrat from 1906 to the late 1910s. Your post is very helpful. However, I would like to know whether Jacob fought the great battle (Wounded Knee and perhaps previous ones). I would be extremely grateful if you had the possibility to answer this question.
Be assured that I am ready to share all information I have, i.e. the letter sent by Jacob White Eyes during his BB's Barnum tour and from Pine Ridge after his return.
The letters of the French aristocrat (the Marquis Folco de Baroncelli) warn him against the risks of acculturation. As a French Southerner, he did not accept the French language hegemony and wanted to preserve the ancestral dialiect, namely provençal, a sub-category of occitan. The descendants of Folco have treasured for decades the Feathered Headdress offered by Jacob White Eyes. Folco used to call his folk "a nation". He was maybe inspired by the expression used by his native friend ...

Regards

[Historian]

Information on Jacob White Eyes from Find A Grave

[emilycburns]

Hello. I am an art historian working on a book project about the visual culture of the American West in France in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.

I am thinking a lot about Jacob White Eyes because of his wonderful postcard correspondence with Folco de Baroncelli, and I'm trying to better understand his family chronology. There is a useful post here from Jul 13, 2011 that breaks down different White Eyes groups, and lists Jacob White Eyes as the child of White Eyes (1848-1935) and Yellow Leaf, but lists the same death date for White Eyes as for Jacob White Eyes (July 18, 1935). In a letter from 1906 from Jacob White Eyes to Baroncelli, he writes that he lost both of his parents 8 or 9 years before. Yet, there seem to be references here to his parents in documents after c. 1897-8, and sometimes there are mistranslations in the letters.

Also, I found some telegrams from 1901 in the Bureau of Indian Affairs Archives from a Cheyenne "Chief White Eyes" who was traveling with Buckskin Bill's Wild West (a more local and smaller traveling show than the Buffalo Bill's Wild West with which Jacob White Eyes traveled abroad). I had some suggestion from descendants at Pine Ridge that Jacob White Eyes's father was Cheyenne (and see a few notes here to the same effect), so I thought there might a connection (perhaps tracing Jacob White Eyes's decision to join BBWW), but that also does not align with the suggestion of death dates in Jacob White Eyes' letter.

I welcome any thoughts or suggestions.

With gratitude,
Emily

[daphne]

My grandfather, Moses Bull Bear's grandmother was Julie White Eyes uncimnisa married to Lawrence Bull Bear she was a medicine woman did you ever hear of her?

[kingsleybray]

Hello daphne, great to see you on the boards here!

I did not know that Lawrence Bull Bear's wife was from the White Eyes family, that is good to learn. In the 1890 Pine Ridge census Lawrence's family is listed in the Iwayusota community, Medicine Root District. White Eyes' family is also listed there.

Lawrence is noted as age 29, so born about 1860-61. His wife given as Julia, was age 23, and they had they had three sons: Dickson (7), Peter (5), and a three-year old boy listed as No Name.

[daphne]

Hi Kingsley

My grandfathers father was Jess Bull bear