|
|
Post by liverpoolannie on Jul 13, 2008 9:09:07 GMT -5
OK ! ... tell me what you think .... the guy on the right of this first picture and the guy in the second picture .... are they both Red shirt ?? ... (all the young men on the first picture are "unknown " !! )   Annie  |
|
|
|
Post by grahamew on Jul 14, 2008 2:50:44 GMT -5
No. And I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn that the men in the Kelly photo are Cheyenne or Arapaho, considering where his studio was and considering I have another Kelly photo of Cheyenne men.
|
|
|
|
Post by liverpoolannie on Jul 14, 2008 15:32:38 GMT -5
Thank you grahamew ! I thought he looked like a good possibility ! Annie |
|
clw
Full Member
Posts: 123
|
Post by clw on Jul 15, 2008 14:00:57 GMT -5
There is an enitre thread with many, many different photos on the LBH board... lbha.proboards12.com/index.cgi?board=Indians&action=display&thread=1582&page=1He's very interesting, especially in that photo. He wears his hair in the style of an Ashke warrior -- those who stacked themselves to the ground and fought to the death. His hair would not have been worn that way lightly. Though he wears Euro clothes, he simply makes them his own. There's little adornment and he carries his canupa. Yet we read he was an agency NDN, and probably not out at all that summer. Ephraim says that 'several sources indicate that our Red Shirt was the son of a white man and a Lakota mother.' And 'that by the time of the Great Sioux War of 1876-77, he was a rising young man within one of the military societies [explains the hair], an "up and coming" individual among the Wagluhe. This band had been led by the prominent headman Big Mouth, until he was shot and killed by Spotted Tail....' |
|
|
|
Post by liverpoolannie on Jul 15, 2008 16:59:02 GMT -5
Thank you clw ! Yes I had read that thread many times !! ... to make sure I didn't miss anything !! and it's also interesting that you say that he wears his hair in the style of an Ashke warrior ... ! In a few places I have found reference to the interview in 1923 with Redshirt ... but I haven't been able to find it ... I appreciate a push in the right direction if possible !! I also read on that thread that Redshirt is sometimes mixed up with Red skirt but the photo had been removed .... and I'm wondering if I have been guilty of mixing and matching too !!  Annie |
|
|
|
Post by grahamew on Jul 17, 2008 11:05:01 GMT -5
You know, I'm going to have to apologise for sounding so authoritative. It's not Red Shirt, but I'd read somewhere that Kelly's studio was based in Denver and it's clear from this photo that it was in Pierre. However, the other Kelly photo I have does feature a young Cheyenne man. As far as I can tell, Kelly worked in Pierre from 1880 until ...? However, even the earliest photo I have of Red Shirt shows him with his hair parted at the side. Here are Godkin's photos:   And here's a Choate photo from 1879:  Red Skirt, by the way, was a much older man. |
|
|
|
Post by liverpoolannie on Jul 17, 2008 12:25:57 GMT -5
Thank you for the photos grahamew .... I think I have most of his pictures already !! ... I was hoping I had found a "new" one !! I would still like to see a picture of Redskirt ... Googling just takes me to lbha.proboards12.com/index.cgi?bo....ead=1582&page=1and of course that photo has been removed ! Annie |
|
|
|
Post by jinlian on Jul 18, 2008 13:41:40 GMT -5
In a picture of the Plenty Horse trial's witness posted by Grahame in another thread, there's a man who looks exactly like Red Shirt:  (of course, we're talking of the man sitting on the right)I don' t remember having read anywhere about Red Shirt being a witness in that trial, but he might have been; btw, in Robert Utley's excellent article about the trial, he says that Woman Dress was a witness too, even if he doesn't appear in any of the pictures taken afterwards. |
|
|
|
Post by liverpoolannie on Jul 18, 2008 14:25:10 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by biggordie on Jul 18, 2008 22:16:12 GMT -5
According to Di Silvestro in his In The Shadow Of Wounded Knee, which deals with the trial of Plenty Horses, the man in the photo supposed to be Redshirt, is Jack Red Cloud. Neither Redshirt nor Woman Dress are mentioned in the book, as far as I can tell.
I'm not sure that this helps any.
Gordie
|
|
|
|
Post by jinlian on Jul 19, 2008 1:23:13 GMT -5
Hi Gordie, and thanks for the info about the Di Silvestro book (I was trying to find a better resolution of that photo!). If you look at the other group picture taken supposedly on that same day, where Jack Red Cloud is sitting between He Dog and Plenty Horses, you'll see he's wearing a different suit. Also, the man picture posted here looks considerably older than Jack (who at the time was in his early thirties).
|
|
|
|
Post by liverpoolannie on Jul 19, 2008 15:59:02 GMT -5
Hi to you both jinlian and Gordie ! I don't believe that's Jack Red Cloud !! on the other photo ... he looks very different ! Red Shirt could have been there as a "supportive friend" not necessarily as a witness .... and as the snippet said " Plenty Horses and his Indian friends “marched over to the photograph parlors of Butterfield and Ralston" He looks about the right age too ... it's interesting .... I'll keep digging ! Thank you both for your interest ! Annie |
|
|
|
Post by grahamew on Jul 19, 2008 17:50:34 GMT -5
And the hair is different because he'd had it cropped in the late 1880s and was growing it long again
|
|
Henri
Full Member
Posts: 103
|
Post by Henri on Jul 21, 2008 4:16:00 GMT -5
Hi there, found two images of Red Shirt.   Henri |
|
|
|
Post by grahamew on Jul 21, 2008 8:59:02 GMT -5
This is NOT Red Shirt, despite what's written on the mount. I thought No Neck, but maybe Plenty Wolves:  This, however, is, along with Cody and others connected with the Wild West Show:  |
|
