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Post by seeker on Feb 18, 2023 19:45:50 GMT -5
Thanks for your support. There is a book about him : Naiche, fils de cochise / Author (French) Giovanni Del Franco (Auteur). Only 16 euros, The author wrote also about Chatto, Mangus, Nana, a book about the broncos stayed in the Sierra and a new one about JUH. I never read because how was it possible to write one book/year seriously about the Chiricahuas. It was because of his biography about Naiche, I began to do my work in 2019. If the autho could do one, I can do it a better one. I would agree - being able to write good, well researched books about each of those men could not be done in a year for each one. I'm impressed with your work and enjoy it
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Post by seeker on Dec 11, 2022 3:10:25 GMT -5
Just a quick comment to coeurrouge - Thank you for such an interesting read about Naiche. It's surprising that there has not been a book written about him when there have been about so many other influential Apache from that time frame.
Whether you ever publish a book or not, thank you again for your dedication to telling this story. I look forward to more.
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Post by seeker on Dec 6, 2017 23:22:35 GMT -5
If anyone is interested, I would be happy to send a pdf copy of an article written in the 1986 Journal of Arizona History by Albert E. Wratten (George's youngest son) entitled "George Wratten Friend of the Apaches."
Just send me a private message and we can exchange e-mail addresses or I can print it out and send it via USPS.
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Post by seeker on Dec 6, 2017 23:01:47 GMT -5
Here is a photo reported to be from the Mt. Vernon Barracks in Alabama with an elderly George Wratten sitting in the midst of a number of Apache.
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Post by seeker on Mar 27, 2017 22:08:37 GMT -5
Thank you for those jasper4 - I could listen to history told by the elder apache all day long. I'm saddened to think that with each passing generation we'll lose more and more of their perspective on life and their ancestor's history. Eventually we'll only be left with what is written in books and all too often that history is very one sided.
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Post by seeker on Mar 21, 2017 18:52:08 GMT -5
That's ok - thanks for letting me know though. I saw a post mentioning something about needing to know German and thought maybe my sound wasn't working. Gonna watch the whole thing tonight.
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Post by seeker on Mar 18, 2017 21:02:28 GMT -5
I started watching the video and want to finish, but based on one of the comments, is this supposed to have audio?
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Post by seeker on Nov 23, 2015 22:33:33 GMT -5
dT - I am re-reading Karl Jacoby's book right now and still have quite a bit more to read before I am finished. I had forgotten how he had organized his chapters as you mentioned breaking things apart into short "histories" of the 3 races/groups involved in this terrible attrocity. It does help to give a background of all the different interactions taking place at the time and what led to the murders of the Native Americans. I found another interesting article worth reading as well - I've only skimmed through it, but it appears to have some descriptions, thoughts and memories from Apache who were just children when it happened. It looks to be well worth reading and I hope to find time this weekend to read it through. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the book and I echo your hope that we could hear hear from someone(s) in the Aravaipa Community. Best to you. faculty.utep.edu/LinkClick.aspx?link=Colwell_Camp+Grant.pdf&tabid=12199&mid=151855
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Post by seeker on Nov 10, 2015 21:32:52 GMT -5
There is a book about the Camp Grant Massacre. I ordered it, and after much patient waiting it arrived today. "Shadows at Dawn" by Karl Jacoby I haven't had a chance to read it yet. But it certainly looks like the author did extensive research, the book is very detailed. I am hoping that the book will fit together some pieces of the jigsaw puzzle, and perhaps help to explain some of the questions. dT Hello dt - I read Karl Jacoby's book several years ago and although I may be mistaken, I believe you are correct that it was well researched and is a balanced investigation into this terrible atrocity. I am finishing reading a different book now, but I will reread Jacoby's book as soon as I am finished. Although I am not Native American, I have a great deal of interest in the history of the Apache in the southwest and when finished reading would really enjoy continuing the discussion here. I am also extremely interested in what the Apache history says of the Camp Grant massacre - history is most often told by the "victors" and is often very one sided - I would enjoy hearing from the other side in this case. Thanks
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Post by seeker on Mar 24, 2015 19:36:38 GMT -5
There is a book called "Verde to San Carlos" written by William T. Corbusier about his father Col. Corbusier who was an army surgeon during that time period. Quite a bit of the book is a biography/background of the Col.'s experiences in the army during the years 1869-1886, but he included a good portion about that terrible forced march the Yavapai and Apache had to endure as he was along during it.
I don't know how accurate his story is especially when compared with oral history of the Native Americans, but he was clearly sympathetic to their cause and thought much of it was brutal and inhumane.
I found it to be a really interesting read and well worth the time. If any of you happen to read it, I would love to hear how it meshes with Yavapai and Apache traditional history.
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Post by seeker on Jul 2, 2014 9:39:09 GMT -5
How about a couple (seemingly) easy ones?
Nana: (NAY-nah) or (NA-nah with the A as in cAt) or ?
Taza: (TAY-zah) or (TA-zah with the A as in cAt) or (TA-zay with the A as in cAt) or ?
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Post by seeker on Jul 1, 2014 20:03:31 GMT -5
kayitah - thank you! I'm not terribly good at doing phonetics, and after looking at your suggestions, I would have to say I agree with all of them. In my mind I always pronounced Nehdni by your 2nd pronunciation (NED-nee), so I'm glad to hear that's one variant!
It surprises me that Juh would be pronounced two such different ways - I wonder why that is?
I haven't had time to add to my list, but rest assured I will sometime soon and continue popping back on here now and then to see if some Native speakers give me their thoughts!
Paul
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Post by seeker on Jun 30, 2014 21:05:09 GMT -5
Thank you again to everyone who has responded. Here is what I have so far - please let me know if any of them sound wrong:
Chiricahua: cheer-uh-CAH-wah (or just cheer-CAH-wah)
Chihenne: chi-HEN-ay
Chokonen: cho-CONE-en
Bedonkohe: be-DONK-uh-hay
Nehdni: NED-en-eye
Naiche: NYE-chee
Alchesay: AL-chuh-say
Cibecue: SIB-uh-cue
Juh: HO
It may seem odd that I want to know the pronunciation, but it doesn't feel right to me to read the stories and not be saying the correct names even if it's just in my head - it just seems disrespectful.
Any corrections to the above?
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Post by seeker on Jun 28, 2014 10:22:40 GMT -5
Thank you very much for the welcome and for helping me out with my first set of words/names! While I've read many books, I haven't seen many of the videos and documentaries associated with Apaches and other Native Americans of the SW, so I really appreciate you sharing the names of those two videos - I will be spending some time in the next week watching them and more as I can find them! The history of the Apache is just so fascinating. One of the things I regret is that I didn't get interested in the history much earlier in life when it was less dangerous to hike and explore the mountains in southern New Mexico and Arizona to experience the area where so much happened. Today so much of it is "ruled" but drug cartels that it generally would not be smart to visit them . Thanks again, and I'm certain I will have more questions. As a matter of fact, if there are more documentaries that you consider to be well done and accurate, please feel free to share them here too. Thanks again, Paul
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Post by seeker on Jun 27, 2014 18:10:28 GMT -5
Thank you very much, and I'm fine being patient! I'll start with the few that pop into my head right now... I'm sure there will be plenty more Chihenne Chokonen Bedonkohe Naiche Alchesay Cibecue Juh
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