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Post by dT on Dec 9, 2012 0:55:37 GMT -5
thanks for all the photo's. very interesting pictures. In the large photo found by Kayitah the people look more natural - more like themselves. They are very serious though .... no smiles.
Does anyone know any stories about Nadozhinne?? He seems to be a very proud man.
dT
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Post by dT on Dec 4, 2012 16:49:41 GMT -5
OK I will stay in touch. I will need to travel a long way - but it would be a great opportunity to see such a ceremony.
dT
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Post by dT on Dec 4, 2012 11:38:55 GMT -5
ladonna ... well perhaps I will be very lucky and i will get a chance to visit your people when you do a kill in the traditional way. I have walked on foot with the titonka before - and I enjoy being with them. And besides - you should not miss the laughter of seeing my face if you offer me raw liver my friend. HAHAHA! Let me know when you do these events - if this is allowed :-)
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Post by dT on Dec 3, 2012 12:48:47 GMT -5
jnickterm - it seems drier then, as if the plant life was more sparse. it actually looks in better condition today. but maybe i am reading in too much from the old photo's - there are only a couple of them.
dT
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Post by dT on Nov 30, 2012 13:44:58 GMT -5
Yes .. perhaps it seems funny :-) You know, I tell you this Ladonna. I have been lucky and I have travelled in many parts of the world. And quite often I help the indigenous people wherever I go. So I have found myself eating many strange foods over the years. But so far I have never eaten meat out of the carcass of a fresh kill. In Africa the people will eat a special part of the goat, immediately after it has been slaughtered. It is still steaming from the body heat and looks slightly green in color - I don't know what it is. Maybe the gall bladder. To them it is a delicacy. Arhhhhh! But to me it looks pretty disgusting - I don't think I have the discipline to do this.
Now for your special tradition - it is the fresh liver. Arhhh - maybe the same thing. You would be laughing your head off if I was present at the kill. I'm not sure my stomach is that strong, brother. HAHAHA!
But thanks for explaining this. It's good to know :-)
And I should add this ... I have a lot of respect for how the animal is cut up and butchered. There is a great deal of tribal wisdom and knowledge in how this is done. People who grow up outside of indigenous cultures don't realize how detailed the knowledge is - for how all the parts of the animal will be used. So I respect this process ... it's very good to see you keeping all this wisdom alive !!
dT
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Post by dT on Nov 29, 2012 15:11:21 GMT -5
By the way - here is an interesting question.
When the buffalo has been killed, and the body is still lying on the grass. Are there any parts of the carcass that are eaten raw by the warriors or the people? Some indigenous peoples around the world have special traditions where they will eat certain internal organs, or drink the fresh blood. It's not easy to eat raw animal parts like this - it takes practice and a strong stomach. But I am just wondering if Lakota tradition has a place for eating some parts of the buffalo immediately after it is killed.
thanks, dT
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Post by dT on Nov 29, 2012 12:26:36 GMT -5
"The InterTribal Bison cooperative was formed in 1990 to reestablish buffalo among our people"
Thank you for sharing. That is a really great idea.
thanks, dT
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Post by dT on Nov 28, 2012 0:25:02 GMT -5
from the posting by swa562 ...
"Shot in the right leg above the knee, and still carry the bullet; shot through the left forearm; wounded in the right leg below the knee with a saber; wounded on top of the head with the butt of a musket; shot just below the outer corner of the left eye; shot in left side, shot in the back. I have killed many Mexicans; I do not know how many, for frequently I did not count them. Some of them were not worth counting"
All those wounds. Think of the pain he was in ... how his body felt each morning when he rose from his bed.
But do you ever see a complaint coming from him? Did he forget how to smile? Did he ever stop encouraging his people? Did he despair of life???
No! :-)
dT
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Post by dT on Nov 27, 2012 14:24:22 GMT -5
Interesting video from YouTube. It was uploaded in 2010 - but not sure when it was originally done. I wonder why they cannot have buffalo meat - at least some of the time? There must be some places where legal hunting of the animals is allowed (with limits). Or the tribe could make a combined purchase of several slughtered buffaloes from local farmers. Is this too expensive for them??
dT
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Lozan
Sept 6, 2012 13:48:45 GMT -5
Post by dT on Sept 6, 2012 13:48:45 GMT -5
I wonder if the Nde women, or young girls, trained in knife fighting skills - just like the boys & men? Did the women use knives primarily for food preparation and survival, or were they familiar with Apache knife fighting techniques? That's an interesting question.
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Post by dT on Aug 31, 2012 12:42:28 GMT -5
Kayitah ... I like the thought of keeping it simple and informal. A "cultural exchange" is an excellent theme. If we are lucky and folks come from different places, then we might see contributions on different aspects of Nde life and culture. That could be very good!
Let's keep talking about it. I learned that August is a bad time - the weather is hot and the campground is closed. But September or October of 2013 might be a possible meeting time.
dT
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Post by dT on Aug 30, 2012 15:03:15 GMT -5
Kayitah - very nice photo's. Thanks for posting! You are right. There is a special kind of power in that place. It feels very much like the Spriit of Cochise still watches over it.
We should see if we can arrange a group meeting some time in 2013. Perhaps we can encourage Nde from various clans to come. It would also be very good to get the young people involved - so they feel that this place is a part of their heritage. In fact ... what would be really good is if both young and old people came. That would be very good.
By the way - i had to look very hard to see the grasshopper in that one picture. That bug is very well camoflaged. Hahahahahaha!!!
dT
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Post by dT on Aug 26, 2012 20:05:50 GMT -5
"Nah-thlet-la and James Kawaykla at Geronimo's grave 1920's"
Picking up this comment - but what I am saying here is not related to original thread. As you know well - there are various rumors about whether Geronimo's grave does really hold the bones of One Who Yawns, and also whether people have interfered with these bones over the years (and whether Geronimo could be buried elsewhere). I don't really want the truth to come out here, because I would prefer that the remains of One Why Yawns be undisturbed.
But I am wondering this - if the US Gov't decided to return Geronimo's bones to his homeland, is there someone around today who could help make this process happen? Is there someone who woudl know where his bones are buried?
It is time to take steps towards healing. This includes the return of remains of Chiricahua's to their rightful resting places.
dT
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Post by dT on Aug 24, 2012 11:24:38 GMT -5
Special thanks to Gregor, Jasper and Coeurouge - based on your answers we can now see more clearly what happened to Biduyah (Victorio) and what went wrong.
It seems that the attacking Mexican force followed a clever strategy. Perhaps this was due to the presence of Luis Garcia who understood Apache tactics, and also to the contributions of Tarahumara Indians. Since the Mexicans were fighting against Victorio and a large band of Apache warriors - they certainly knew the seriousness of the battle that was coming. It seems that they divided their army (roughly 260-300 men) into two or three groups. One group continued trailing Victorio from the rear. The other groups went around him from the sides and set up a forward position ahead of him. The forward position was an ambush. This was possible because the Mexicans had fresh horses and a lot of supplies, while Victorio was moving slowly due to the presence of women and children in his band. Furthermore, the Apache people were very tired and probably they had eaten many of their horses for food by this time. So their speed across the plains was not fast.
Quite possibly - the ambush set up by the Mexicans would have finished Victorio immediately. But his scouts must have spotted some trouble ahead, so Victorio took shelter at Tres Castillos. Unfortunately, this place does not offer enough shelter if the enemy force is large and very well equipped. The Mexicans had those advantages in this battle.
This put Biduyah (Victorio) into an impossible decision. I think it likely that if he had just his own band of warriors present (with some Mescalero Apaches), then he could have fought an escape through the Mexican ambush. Some Apaches would have been killed, but most would have survived (although wounded). But Victorio could not abandon all the women and children in his group. And he could not get such a large group free by trying to escape the Mexican lines in the darkness of the night. A few women, children and old men did escape, but the rest were trapped.
So Victorio and his warriors chose to do the honorable thing - fight to the death with no ammunition for their guns. When they sang their death songs for a long time that night - it was with the realization that their situation was lost and could not be won the next day. Instead, they built fortifications by piling rocks, and made their enemies pay as much as possible.
Lozen was apparently delayed by some important purpose. But my guess is that this incident, with the death of her brother and many great warriors amongst the Chihenne, must have haunted her for the rest of her life. She would always wonder about whether she could have warned the Apache band about approaching danger - if she had been present. Lozen was said to have the special Power to forecast the approach of her enemies.
These comments are speculative - since direct evidence of the battle is circumstantial. Bit it seems to make sense based on the facts that are known. dT
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Post by dT on Aug 23, 2012 12:24:34 GMT -5
Jasper ... thank you again. Yes you are right - Biduyah and all his men fought to their deaths with great courage and without complaint. A very great credit to them. They set a very high example for the world world.
I thought about the battle at Tres Castillos some more -and realized this series of events must have troubled Lozen very deeply. She may have had good reasons to be absent from her brother when the battle was taking place, Yet later, the message would have reached her that the enemy caught Biduyah by surprise - a situation where her gifts might have saved lives. Perhaps her spirit was deeply troubled for a long time by these thoughts. A sad thought.
dT
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