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Post by dT on Oct 13, 2019 17:55:05 GMT -5
Thank you for your reply. I have never seen a jaguar in the wild. But i have seen them in zoos. They are a very muscular animal, very powerful.
Its interesting that they still find their way into the mountains of Arizona. They are getting across the border with Mexico. Thats really amazing.
Thank you for sharing.
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Post by dT on Apr 29, 2019 21:57:35 GMT -5
I mentioned this once before. Jaguars must have roamed the mountains in S. Arizona and N. Mexico during the days when the Apaches were strong. I dont mean mountain lions, I mean real jaguars (like those in South America and Central America). They are very powerful animals. Maybe they were rare, probably very uncommon in Arizona in the old days. But for sure, the Nde people must have known that they existed.
The last jaguar seen in California was shot near Palm Springs, sometime around the year 1930. But before that time, there must have been "bronco jaguars" [like Bronco Apaches] ... wild jaguars, individuals that just roamed and killed on their own.
This animal must exist in Apache legends. If anyone knows any stories, please share.
Pete dT
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Post by dT on Apr 29, 2019 21:06:03 GMT -5
Thanks for these 2 maps. Very interesting!!
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Post by dT on Apr 13, 2019 20:19:29 GMT -5
Jasper4. Dagote. I hope that you are well. Thanks for the information about Geronimo. I did not know that. I have believed for a long time that Geronimo was trying to do his job as a Diiyin - truing to help his people. He was looking for things. I hope to see AZ again this year ... maybe late this year. The Chiricahua Mtns are a beautiful place.
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Post by dT on Apr 8, 2019 21:47:31 GMT -5
Nate the Great. True. Geronimo and Juh were betrayed. But on the other hand, I was impressed that the young lieutenants in the US Army still could not catch Geronimo. Geronimo was in his 50's, I think. Or pretty close. And the young Army officers were in their20's. But tbey could not catch the old and wiley Indian. Hahaha!! Running through mtns is not easy ... it is tough on the heart and lungs. Geronimo was a very strong man all of his life. :-)
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Post by dT on Mar 31, 2019 23:22:35 GMT -5
I dont know much about Juh. BUT he ruled his Apache band in a great and powerful place. From the photos, he looks like he was a very strong warrior. And I think there were good reasons why Geronimo went down there sometimes, and why Geronimo refused to be confined on the reservation. So thank you for sharing these things.
dT
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Post by dT on Mar 17, 2019 22:16:12 GMT -5
It's really too bad that Tom Jeffords never wrote an account of his dealings with Cochise. It would have been invaluable.
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Geronimo
Feb 27, 2019 19:21:35 GMT -5
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Post by dT on Feb 27, 2019 19:21:35 GMT -5
You know, i was thinking. Maybe my impressions were influenced by Hollywood. In the movie called 'Geronimo' it shows his rifle being transferred to Gen. Miles after he surrendered.
But in real life - things might not have happened that way. Maybe Geronimo never carried his rifle on the day he turned himself in to the US Army. So maybe he gave his real rifle to someone else, like another Chiricahua. That would explain why it is not in the official records. It's just a thought. I don't know for sure.
Thanks for all of the great photos! They are excellent!!
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Geronimo
Feb 26, 2019 19:33:40 GMT -5
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Post by dT on Feb 26, 2019 19:33:40 GMT -5
Thank you. It confirms my impression of Geronimo. He was a sniper at heart. He preferred to shoot over long distances. It's logical and it was a very effective strategy for him.
I have never read about his shooting accuracy. I have not seen what happened at the Battle of Sonora. I have always been curious about how Geronimo got so good with the ballistics. Someone must have coached him. Long distance shooting could not have been easy in those days.
It makes sense to me that Fun would have preferred a Winchester. That is a very good choice for an Apache who is brave and very fast on his feet.
It is very strange that Geronimo's rifle just disappeared, don't you think? It would be a real collector's item. People must have realized that. Too bad Gen Miles didnt donate the rifle to Westpoint, or some place like that.
BTW, I am no fan of Miles. But it was the end of the Indian wars and Miles was just using whatever (dirty) strategy worked to get things wrapped up.
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Geronimo
Feb 26, 2019 0:22:28 GMT -5
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Post by dT on Feb 26, 2019 0:22:28 GMT -5
Thank you for clarifying. I am not really worried about the studio gun. What i would like to know, what happened to Geronimo's real rifle? And for that matter, what was he really carrying? I got the impression, but i could be wrong,that Geronimo was actually carrying a long-barreled rifle, which would have given him better accuracy over long ranges.
It makes sense that Gen. Miles might have taken control of Geronimo's rifle after his surrender. But it does seem strange that the rifle disappeared, or was lost over time.
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Geronimo
Feb 25, 2019 10:23:18 GMT -5
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Post by dT on Feb 25, 2019 10:23:18 GMT -5
And a follow-up question, along the same lines. What happened to Geronimo's real rifle, the one he actually had when he surrendered? Rumor has it ... that the rifle was given to Gen. Miles. But where is it now? Does anyone know?
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Post by dT on Feb 17, 2019 13:38:03 GMT -5
I did not get the impression that Nate was attacking the Lakota. As other People here said, Crazy Horse represented a threat to the power structure of the white people. They feared him. So it is not surprising that they devised schemes to kill him, although the killing was done with the hands of red men.
Crazy Horse was very unique. There has never been another warrior like him. Perhaps the Crow said it best ... and they were traditional enemies of the Lakota. The Crow said of him ... 'We knew him better than you did'. That was because Crazy Horse was very bold, and often he atracked his enemies at very close range. So truly, he was closer to his enemies than to his own warriors on the battlefield. A man with great courage.
His death was a tragedy. And you can say that the life of Crazy Horse was an unusual mixture of brightness and tragedy. His mother committed suicide when he was very young. It must have left a deep scar on him. His life was a life to be remembered, but not an easy life.
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Post by dT on Feb 15, 2019 15:10:29 GMT -5
Worthwhile to remember, the Apache men fighting with Victorio did not surrender. I think that a few of the young ones and the boys did escape. The Apache warriors were not defeated in face-to-face fighting. No. They were killed after the Apaches ran out of ammo, and the Mexicans threw sticks of dynamite amongst the rocks, blowing the Apaches to pieces.
That's some great victory, Mexico. Sarcasm off.
It was brutal fight. A reminder that there was much hatred. Those were hard days.
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Big Bear
Feb 13, 2019 21:56:28 GMT -5
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Post by dT on Feb 13, 2019 21:56:28 GMT -5
Special thanks to everyone who posted photos here. There are some really great pix.
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Post by dT on Feb 12, 2019 22:07:22 GMT -5
There was an interesting discussion a long time back. A Russian man figured it out, after very careful analysis of Apache history. The events happened when Geronimo escaped captivity. Dont ask me which escape it was, Geronimo jumped the res. several times. ANYWAY Geronimo headed south towards the border with Mexico, accompanied by a band of warriors and women.
Ulzanna split off east and was not detected. If i remember, ULzanna had a brother, somebody important. Ulzannas's band raided many houses and places, stealing a lot of weapons and killing people. They covered a lot of ground, and mounted many fierce attacks. This is the reason why i mentioned Ulzanna as a warrior. He was very skilled, and lethal.
The role of Ulzanna in all of this is not appreciated by many people. Geronimo got the blame for all of the bloodshed. In reality, Geronimo crossed the border quickly and it was Ulzanna's band that did a lot of the killing. Therefore when Geronimo complained later that he was blamed for many things he did not do ... he was telling the truth.
The reason I asked about Miguel Narbonno (and Mangas) ... in the early years while the US Civil War was raging, there was nothing to stop the Apache bands. There was very little enforcement in the Arizona Territory. The Apaches roamed freely and dominated the Arizona landscape. There are reports of Apache attacks even on the outskirts of Tucson. It is fair to say, no-one was safe from them. But of course, the Apaches were defending their own land. So from their point of view, the white people were invaders. I dont know who did the fighting near Tucson ... Miguel Narbonno or Mangas (or both). They were a fearsome bunch, that is for sure.
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