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Post by gregor on Mar 19, 2019 8:28:44 GMT -5
Hello wayanke, the answer is simple. At the time (2009) I did not know all the photographers, photos and variants of photos. Or I did not have access to these photos. Meanwhile, I was able to expand my archive with many photos. Often, these are just variations of settings. For us Europeans it is sometimes difficult to get photos or documents.
Toksha Gregor
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Post by wayanke on Mar 20, 2019 17:21:36 GMT -5
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Post by wayanke on Mar 20, 2019 17:22:53 GMT -5
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Post by grahamew on Mar 21, 2019 2:17:07 GMT -5
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Post by grahamew on Mar 21, 2019 7:21:53 GMT -5
Let's not forget the one of One Bull:  |
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Post by wayanke on Mar 22, 2019 17:09:32 GMT -5
Thank you! And what about some else photoes of Sitting Bull? Have anybody seen smth from this seria?
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Post by grahamew on Mar 23, 2019 4:12:31 GMT -5
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Post by Californian on Mar 25, 2019 13:49:55 GMT -5
There are a total of 15 known photographs of the session with Palmquist & Jürgens of Minneapolis taken in March 1884 and that includes the one of One Bull by himself which Gregor shared in his earlier post. Most images are very similar, only with very slight variations such as the position of the hands etc. - - two show Sitting Bull full size, seated - eight show Sitting Bull half size, from the knees upwards (seated) - two show Sitting Bull standing full length, nearly identical except that the position of the camera had been slightly shifted - two show Sitting bull seated with One Bull - one shows One Bull seated by himself Since you are from Russia, Alfred Uno Palmquist [1850-1922] was a native from Finland, but of Swedish ethnic background. I believe, but am not sure, that at the time of Palmquist's birth, Finland was part of the Russian Empire. Please correct me if I am wrong. Here is a link to a brief biography on him located on this board: amertribes.proboards.com/thread/2837/alfred-palmquist-1850-1922-photographer |
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Post by wayanke on Mar 25, 2019 15:01:52 GMT -5
Thank you, very interesting! Yes, Palmquist really was born in Russia Empire. And what about the images, do you have them?
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Post by wayanke on Mar 25, 2019 15:27:32 GMT -5
I got the difference between two photos of full length - here are they!   |
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Post by wayanke on Mar 25, 2019 15:55:58 GMT -5
So, here are 2 full length, 2 full size sitting, 2 with One Bull and 1 with only One Bull. But only 3 half size, not 8...[/div] By the way on this photo of arikari chief we can see the same leggings as on Sitting Bull. I always thought that beadwork on them is rather strange for lakota people... It seems that the leggings are aricara's or from the photo studio...  |
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Post by Californian on Mar 25, 2019 16:42:32 GMT -5
here is an article that appeared a few years ago in a publication of the Historical Society of Minnesota by Leo J. Harris - dated Summer 2015 (vol. 50, No. 2, page 13 through 18). Unfortunately the author has since died. It gives some details about this particular event. Sitting Bull photographs by Palmquist and J....pdf (1 MB) The article is not quite correct, it falsely states that William R. Cross made the first portrait of Sitting Bull while at Fort Randall, yet it is amply documented that this credit goes to Orlando Scott Goff who took two portraits in July 1881 during a stopover and while in transit to Fort Randall. Sitting Bull seems to wear the same shirt as he did in the Goff portraits thus it is safe to assume that both photographic sessions likely took place within a few days of each other. |
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Post by grahamew on Mar 25, 2019 16:50:26 GMT -5
You know, I've stared at both these photos on a number of occasions and never noticed they were wearing the same leggings. The man with the knife club is Long Dog, a Hunkpapa follower of Sitting Bull who first (I think) had his photo taken by Anderton at Fort Walsh. This photo is by George W. Scott, who used this backdrop on a number of photos, probably his earlier works - i.e. pre 1885. Interestingly, he wears the SAME leggings in a later Scott photo; if you look closely, he has a different breechclout. amertribes.proboards.com/thread/1339/george-scott?page=1He's also wearing the leggings in at least three Barry photos (85-88?):    |
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Post by Californian on Mar 25, 2019 17:08:55 GMT -5
the 2 full length portraits (standing) ... the ones you posted are the two versions that exist. They are near identical. On one, the painted backdrop at the bottom right is slightly different, also I think Sitting Bull slightly moved his head. This particular version is very rare - not even the Library of Congress has it. The Minnesota Historical Society has a print, but it is not of the greatest quality. A number of the Palmquist & Jürgens images of Sitting Bull can be found at the Library of Congress image collection - Palmquist & Jurgens, photographer. Sitting Bull / photographed & published by Palmquist & Jurgens, St. Paul, Minn. United States, ca. 1884. Photograph. www.loc.gov/item/00652520/www.loc.gov/item/99402407/www.loc.gov/item/99402416/www.loc.gov/item/99402418/www.loc.gov/item/99402422/www.loc.gov/item/99402370/The McCord Museum in Montreal holds the original negatives of the famous William Notman & Son single and closeup portraits of Sitting Bull as well as several photographs together with Buffalo Bill (William Cody). One can purchase high resolution scans off these original glass plate negatives. |
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Post by Californian on Mar 25, 2019 17:17:44 GMT -5
hi Grahamew
I agree with you, but ... would'nt that be a fairly common design ? I can accept that a pair of leggings may have been part of a photographer's props at a specific studio - even possibly that Barry and Goff, both of which worked at Fort Yates for a period of time, might have the same pair for their subjects, but that yet the same garment is believed to also have been used at the far off studio of Palmquist & Jurgens in Minneapolis ? That's a bit hard to accept. It is well known that at D F Barry's Bismarck studio Sitting Bull and Rain-in-the-Face both had worn the same split-horn head dress, but that was the same photographer at the same physical location. I don't claim to be an expert with this particular issue here, but before I am ready to accept it, I would want to see some irrefutable proof, i.e. some specific and identifiable irregularity in the design or such.
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