vicky
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by vicky on Jul 27, 2017 20:56:31 GMT -5
Hello again, I have just returned from Sisseton and I have seen the probates for both Anna and Sophia. (Mary has no probate) There is no mention of the parents of either woman. Neither is there mention of land inherited from Wamdiupiduta, Scarlet Plume. I have record of Wamdiupiduta's heirship from NARA, Central Plains Region, KC MO. He died on March 6, 1893, age 69. His heirs were determined on April 5, 1919. His only surviving heirs were Nancy Tacandiwastewin and Susan Brant Sagyemazawin. Sophia was deceased when his heirs were determined, having died on May 7, 1916, age 62 years. However, Anna didn't die until Jan. 3 1929, age 88 years, and certainly would have been listed as an heir on this document if she was his daughter.
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Post by natasha on Aug 1, 2017 12:15:21 GMT -5
Vicky: Thank you so much for your efforts! As I am still working on my genealogy office and getting everything organized and filed after our horrible water damage, I am hoping to find information that was sent to me from Spirit Lake. It included a pedigree chart that showed (you will love this!) that Sophia was the daughter of (wait for it!) Spotted Elk (Big Foot). I have never 100% believed this...unless, of course, it is the Oglala Big Foot. I have written to Spirit Lake a couple of times since then hoping for some clarification but have never received anything back from them. So...I will charge forward with some of the suggestions given me on this board! Funny thing I have learned from doing genealogy is that you learn the most from the hard research. Thank you again....and I will most certainly let this site and thread know if I have any success!
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Post by natasha on Aug 1, 2017 13:02:17 GMT -5
Vicky: I remember telling you somewhere above that I had seen a picture of Scarlet Plume's tombstone in the Buffalo Lake Cemetery in Eden, Marshall, South Dakota. It is in the "west cemetery". If you go to the site for Find A Grave, he is memorial #61987276. I noticed in some discussions several years ago on this site there was question about whether he ever was given a christian name. Per the tombstone it looks like it was Israel.
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Post by natasha on Aug 1, 2017 14:01:50 GMT -5
Also...just awhile ago I found on the internet in a Congressional Edition - Volume 4239 - page 38, there was a list of natives who enlisted and served as scouts (1864 under General Sully) taken from an official copy on file in the agents office, Yankton Agency where there was a listing for Red Eagle Feather and his Indian name was recorded as Tawacinduta. Maybe that does not really translate to Red Eagle Feather....I don't know.
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Post by lgarcia on Aug 1, 2017 14:17:15 GMT -5
Natasha: Tawacinduta translates His Scarlet Mind or Will. Ta (wa) = his, wacin= mind, will, thoughts, Duta = scarlet (bright red) could even mean sacred). Louie
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Post by lgarcia on Aug 1, 2017 14:33:39 GMT -5
One must remember that the probate is done to determine who is to inherit the land of the deceased in most cases. I have discovered a few cases where children or other relatives were not named so that those present could receive a larger share.
I only discovered the crooked work while tracing another family years later. Louie
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Post by natasha on Aug 1, 2017 15:26:43 GMT -5
Oh boy...anything to make tracing ancestry harder! Thanks to all of you for your thoughts....wish me luck!
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vicky
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by vicky on Aug 2, 2017 18:35:55 GMT -5
Natasha, I heard back from NARA in DC today. They have nothing. No surprise. They wrote- "This is in response to your request that we received on July 24, 2017, regarding probate records for Scarlet Plume/Wamdiupiduta, who died in 1893. Bureau of Indian Affairs probate and inheritance files for the period in which you are interested are located in the series, "Letters Received, 1881-1907" (Entry 91 in Record Group 75: Records of the Bureau of Indian Affairs). We checked our alphabetical name and subject index to the BIA Letters Received; this index has been reproduced on NARA Microfilm Publication P2187, Indexes to Letters Received by the Office of Indian Affairs, 1881-1907. Although we checked the index under "Scarlet," "Plume," and "Wamdiupiduta," we were unfortunately unable to locate any references to the individual that you seek. We also checked our alphabetical name index to the Central Classified Files, 1907-1939 (Entry 121-A in Record Group 75) in the event that later BIA correspondence or case files mentioned Scarlet Plume/Wamdiupiduta. Again, we checked under "Scarlet," "Plume," and "Wamdiupiduta," but found no references to this individual in the index. It is possible that probate records for Scarlet Plume/Wamdiupiduta exist within our holdings, and our searches overlooked them. We are regrettably not staffed to continue searching our holdings for all possible records of Scarlet Plume/Wamdiupiduta. We would be happy to make our records and microfilm publications available to you in our research rooms, should you wish to visit Washington, DC and conduct research in person. More information on visiting the National Archives Building in Washington, DC can be found on our website at: www.archives.gov/dc-metro/washington." Someone at the Sisseton BIA must have the answers to your questions. I'd keep trying. The descendants I spoke with have no answers. Oral history is all over the place. Wish I could have helped....
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Post by natasha on Aug 3, 2017 15:15:59 GMT -5
Vicky....of course you helped! Finding something is always great...but keeping a list and checking things OFF is also important. I am printing and keeping everything in one file for Scarlet Plume/Wamdiupiduta and will just keep working on him. Hoping to find the pedigree chart I referenced above that I received from Spirit Lake so that I can refer to it and the letter I got with it....thinking that perhaps you would find it very interesting. It's in a binder that I put together with all my hubby's "stuff"...so hopefully, I will come to that box soon!
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Post by natasha on Sept 13, 2017 10:01:57 GMT -5
Just wanted everyone to know that I have not given up on this....just trying several different avenues. I am away from my files at home right now, but I have read in at least three places over the past couple of weeks where it was stated that Gabriel Renville was the son-in-law of Wambdiupiduta. As a researcher, this is not what one would consider a primary source. When I am home with my files, I will post those references here. Also hoping to hear from my husband's brother who is still living on the Sisseton-Wahpeton Oyate reservation. When I spoke with him a week ago, he knew Wambdiupiduta's name right away. He even said he had a genealogy "somewhere" that someone had given him and would look for it and send me a copy. (Why had I never heard this before???)
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Post by natasha on Nov 30, 2017 10:30:17 GMT -5
Just checking in again to let everyone know that I am still waiting for replies. I'm also getting closer to having all the boxes cleared out that were used to put things in after we had the water damage in my "genealogy room." Hectic time of year and I sometimes feel overwhelmed! If any of you find anything please be sure to let me know. I appreciate all the information all of you have shared!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2018 14:31:56 GMT -5
i am a whitecap, in canada they have it Son Of Wapaha BUT they forgot the letter H at the end, my grandfather samuel whitecap Carry The Kettle is Son Of Wahpahah(Hat), Officer Louis who was hiding in treaty 4 iron cree confederacy southern saskatchewan CTK. Standing Rock traditional oral history passed down from Gnaskinyan mani, Brother to Wahpahah is that they have different father Left Hand Bear is Gnaskinyan Mani's Father, but they did not know Wahpahah's father?, but they had the same mother sisatonwan/wapekute in the mans wiceyena side it was passed down that White Cap left to Dakota Country(Cypress Hills) after Sitting Bull is Shot, in a photo and list of names of the hunkpapa police/calvary, 1 man is UNIDENTIFIED* and in that giant list i found looking for my grandfathers name, it was not on there?, and when i look at witness drawing HAT(Wahpahah) is drawn in each 1, and believe it or not i am a white indian i never knew why i was white, i never knew why i didnt look like anyone in my family until i seen that picture of all the soldiers and 1 with skin pigmentation, but i know nothing else, i am 'Assuming' Redwood County, reinville county, big stone?, it is the only place i found WAHPAHAH and to sneak into canada, my great grandfather and great grandmother //Cega Appapi wife in America//(her husband shoots cop on dec,15,1890), act blind,have it marked, adds a ska to his name, erases the last 'H' to blend in, but no family from my reserve nor did the assiniboines know where we came from, my own family didn't, but we are marked chief long lodge family under Son Of Wahpaha, and Samuel Whitecap was born 1895-1896 under the name PAHA'ZIZI(YELLOW HAIR) i havent found his birth certificate yet?, but the us army was paying my great grandfather on records and everything bout him would be on the army records, which i cant find, if he was a deserter, how would i find out
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Post by Historian on Jun 5, 2018 10:46:57 GMT -5
Sisseton Dakota and Wahpeton Dakota Delegation in Washington D.C. - 1858As I understand it, using the caption written on the photo below, combined with translations from a variety of sources, the caption would translate to something like this: * Standing in back row left to right: Nathaniel R. Brown Esq. (non-Native attorney), Tu-tesy-du'-hee-pa Ho'tay-ke or His Pipe With A Loud Voice or A-ki'pa or Meeting (Sisseton Dakota), Wa'kan Hi-na'-pe or He That Appears Sacred or Charles Renville (Sisseton Dakota), An-pe'-tu To'-ke-tca or Other Day or John Other Day (Wahpeton Dakota), Ma'-za Ku-te' Ma'-ni or He That Shoots Iron While Walking or Iron Shooter (Wahpeton Dakota) * Sitting in front row left to right: Wa-mdi' U-pi' Du'-ta or Scarlet Eagle Plume (Sisseton Dakota), Ma'za Ca or Sounding Iron (Sisseton Dakota), U-pi' I-ya'-hde-a or Extended Tail Feathers (Wahpeton Dakota), Thomas S. Williamson M.D. (non-Native medical doctor)
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Post by natasha on Jun 22, 2018 12:23:45 GMT -5
Hello friends! I finally located the binder that I had information in about one of Gabriel Renville's wives named Sophia. My husband descends directly from these two. I had corresponded with Spirit Lake several years ago regarding hubby's mother's ancestry. They had a pedigree chart showing my husband as no.1 on the chart and then extended back. On this chart, it showed that Gabriel's wife Sophia was the daughter of Si ha Tanka/ Si ha Saska. A note is typed on the chart saying that Sihatanka/Sihasaska had been there (Spirit Lake) for a short time in 1862. Now, what I would like to know...if any of you know...how was that information generated at Spirit Lake? Ancestors reporting the info? Reported at the time of the birth of Sophia by her mother? Anyway, I have the pedigree chart sent to me if anyone would like a copy. This is the only difinitive record I have showing who Sophia's father and mother were. (Not in front of me right now or I would tell you the mother's name who was a member of the Spirit Lake Tribe). I have tried contacting Spirit Lake a couple of times more recently and I have never received a reply. I did send the info to Louie Garcia and was hoping to hear his thoughts on it.
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vicky
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by vicky on Jul 12, 2018 8:24:40 GMT -5
Hello friends! I finally located the binder that I had information in about one of Gabriel Renville's wives named Sophia. My husband descends directly from these two. I had corresponded with Spirit Lake several years ago regarding hubby's mother's ancestry. They had a pedigree chart showing my husband as no.1 on the chart and then extended back. On this chart, it showed that Gabriel's wife Sophia was the daughter of Si ha Tanka/ Si ha Saska. A note is typed on the chart saying that Sihatanka/Sihasaska had been there (Spirit Lake) for a short time in 1862. Now, what I would like to know...if any of you know...how was that information generated at Spirit Lake? Ancestors reporting the info? Reported at the time of the birth of Sophia by her mother? Anyway, I have the pedigree chart sent to me if anyone would like a copy. This is the only difinitive record I have showing who Sophia's father and mother were. (Not in front of me right now or I would tell you the mother's name who was a member of the Spirit Lake Tribe). I have tried contacting Spirit Lake a couple of times more recently and I have never received a reply. I did send the info to Louie Garcia and was hoping to hear his thoughts on it. Thank you for sending the tree. Very interesting! It is good to have this resolved. Scarlet Plume was not the father of the sisters, as I suspected. Sophia's parents were SIHATANKA/ SIHAHASKA (Big Foot) and IHANKETOWANWIN.
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