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Post by natasha on Jun 15, 2017 11:31:45 GMT -5
Also, Vicky....I noted that in the Buffalo Lake Cemetery there are a number of Brant names and you told me that one of Wamdiupiduta's daughter was a Brant. I just wish I could find something that PROVES the three wives of Gabriel Renville were for sure his daughters. Guess if I dig long and hard and creative enough I just might find something!!!
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Post by kingsleybray on Jun 15, 2017 16:36:04 GMT -5
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Post by natasha on Jun 16, 2017 12:47:09 GMT -5
All of you are just great to share! That picture, kingsley, is the picture that is on his memorial on Find A Grave. It's a wonderful picture, as are all that I've seen posted here and elsewhere. I just wish I had definitive info regarding Gabriel Renville's wives being his daughters!
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vicky
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Post by vicky on Jun 17, 2017 6:25:48 GMT -5
All of you are just great to share! That picture, kingsley, is the picture that is on his memorial on Find A Grave. It's a wonderful picture, as are all that I've seen posted here and elsewhere. I just wish I had definitive info regarding Gabriel Renville's wives being his daughters! I'm checking into probates. Don't know where else to look for proof.
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Post by natasha on Jul 18, 2017 14:46:15 GMT -5
Sorry I haven't been back for awhile...I lost my wonderful daughter to cancer on June 25th and just took a rest from the internet. I have tried every source that I can think of that might have info about Gabriel Renville's three wives who were sisters...some have said that they were the daughters of Scarlet Plume but I have not seen anything that would prove that. I will continue to look and will post anything conclusive that I find.
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Post by kingsleybray on Jul 19, 2017 9:50:59 GMT -5
sorry to hear about the loss of your daughter, natasha. About Scarlet Plume and the Renvilles I would recommend you contact Mark Diedrich by his website (Coyote Books), and maybe Louis Garcia at Tokio, ND, via these boards.
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Post by natasha on Jul 19, 2017 14:51:38 GMT -5
Thank you, Kingsley. Our hearts are aching but they are not broken....we know we will see her again. I will contact the two people you suggested.
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Post by lgarcia on Jul 19, 2017 15:25:20 GMT -5
Natasha: My condolences to you and your family. Have you contacted the Sisseton-Wahpeton Oyate? They have an enrolment office. All the probates are there. Perhaps you have been there already. Have you visited with the families who are descendants? There are lots of oral history on the rez. Sometimes you have to ask around to find to find the right person. louis.garcia@littlehoop.edu
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Post by natasha on Jul 20, 2017 11:50:10 GMT -5
Unfortunately, we live in Utah...pretty far away from the Sisseton-Wahpeton Oyate. I can try writing again in hopes they will answer. Whenever I have written in the past I have not received any answers. Do you think if I wrote using my husband's name, since he is an enrolled member, that it would make a difference?
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vicky
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Post by vicky on Jul 20, 2017 15:05:09 GMT -5
natasha, I am so sorry for your loss. I am still working on this. I will be in Sisseton in a few days and will see what I can find out. The BIA's are not very helpful these days in providing probates and will not give them to anyone who is not a known descendant. I have to order them from NARA in DC when I need some. They can get very pricey at 80 cents a page and some containing a couple hundred pages. Wish I had a dollar for every letter I ever sent with no reply and all the stamps I sent with SASE that ended up in someone's trash! I'd be rich! I have your email. I will send along anything I find. I don't give up easily.
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Post by lgarcia on Jul 20, 2017 16:00:15 GMT -5
Natasha: You could write a letter to the editor of the Sisseton Courier and /or Smoke Signal's newspapers. Both are on line, and ask for relatives to contact you. Louie
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vicky
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Post by vicky on Jul 20, 2017 17:57:28 GMT -5
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Post by natasha on Jul 21, 2017 9:39:39 GMT -5
Thanks, Vickie and Louie....I don't give up easy either! I am currently going through tons of material that I have on both my lines and hubby's...and doing a massive filing project. I think I will try the tribal newspaper first. Will absolutely let this site know if I have any success.
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Post by kingsleybray on Jul 21, 2017 10:20:51 GMT -5
keep us posted -- I feel sure that Scarlet Plume was related through marriage to Gabriel Renville but would like to hear it from the descendants for sure.
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vicky
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Post by vicky on Jul 21, 2017 10:45:25 GMT -5
hello natasha, I am not as conversant with Wahpeton and Sisseton genealogies as I am with Lakota. Gabriel Renville (1825-1892) was the son of Victor Renville and Winona Crawford, mixed blood Dakotas. Victor died in 1833, and Gabriel was then raised by his stepfather Joseph Akipa Renville, a full blood. Gabriel married three sisters in 1847, 1858, and 1860. He worked for the fur trader and Indian agent Joseph R. Brown, who was his brother-in-law. I'm not sure how that relationship worked exactly, but that is why the family name Brown recurs with Gabriel and his wives. I have seen a reference to Scarlet Plume being the father-in-law of Gabriel Renville -- see Mark Diedrich (with Louis Garcia), Little Fish: Head Chief of the Dakota on the Fort Totten Reservation (Coyote Books, 2009), p. 28. Note that Louis posts on these boards. I presume the three sisters Gabriel married including Sophia were indeed daughters of Scarlet Plume. Scarlet Plume was a chief in the Upper Sisseton. Before the war of 1862 Scarlet Plume's village was on the southern shore of Big Stone Lake. Hello Kingsley, Do you have access to the book you mention here? Is there a reference given for the statement in the book re: Scarlet Plume's daughters? I have been in contact with a descendant and there are probates for Anna and Sophia with no mention of their parents. There is no probate for Mary, as her land was probably sold before her death. I have contacted NARA in DC to see if they have probate or heirship records for Scarlet Plume. I am pretty sure there will be nothing, or we'd all know about it by now. Sadly this may be oral history that cannot be proven with documentation. Happens a lot. I certainly will keep you posted and you all do the same, please. Thanks!
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