Chief White Shield - were there two?

[machawk]

Hullo..am new to this and the first time I am doing serious research but had many dreams of being a Cheyenne since I was a small boy and am now  researching Roman Nose who died at Beechers Island and need to find out who were his contemporaries in both the northern and southern cheyennes as he mixed, hunted and fought with both. I have come to a dead end with info on White Shield as it appears there are two consistently contradictory accounts.
1. He was a northerner, or perhaps a southerner who moved north and played a major part in the Rosebud and Little Big Horn battles which have him fighting in 1876
2. He was a southerner who as a chief, went to negotiate a treaty in Washington before or around 1870 and in the same year retired to the Oklahoma reservation and converted to christianity....which puts him at odds with the story we know about the White Shield who was present at LBH

[machawk]

And also.
Do we have two Lame White Man ?

The famous one appears to have led the Cheyennes at LBH and died in the fight..also known as Wolf That has No Sense...a southerner who moved north and his death in 1876 as a reported 37 yo would have him born in 1839 which is about the same year as Roman Nose aka Bat, the famous warrior

The other one is reported to be a Southerner also , born in 1825 and died in 1909.

Please help.

[cinemo]

Hello, machawk

as with many Plains tribes, there were often men with the same names. This also applies to the name White Shield.

There was a White Shield, born about 1800. He was a participant of the battle of Wolf Creek, in 1838 and he survived the Washita battle in 1868. This one White Shield was also known as Gentle Horse and it is said, he died at the age of ninety five years.

There was another White Shield, the Southern Cheyenne chief. Wopohwats (Wo’poh’´wăts, White Shield Owner, commonly known to the whites as White Shield). A former chief of the Southern Cheyenne, born about 1833 on an upper branch of North Platte River Wyoming; died in 1883 near the present Kingfisher, Oklahoma. In accordance with Indian custom, he had different names, at different periods. As a young man he was known as Mouse Road His more famous name was bestowed on him in 1862 by his uncle, the noted Black Kettle, killed in the battle of the Washita, who had previously borne the name himself. About the year 1878 he assumed his grandfather’s name of Buffalo Beard, which he kept until his death. Having distinguished himself as a warrior, particularly in two engagements with the Pawnee, he became a leader in the Bowstring soldier society, and in 1870 was formally elected to the council of chiefs. In the next year he was one of a delegation sent to Washington to represent the allied Cheyenne and Arapaho tribes then established on a reservation in Oklahoma, and with his companions received from President Grant a treaty medal bearing the device of a pipe, a plow, a globe, and a Bible, which were explained to symbolize peace, agriculture, education, and Christianity. White Shield accepted all this literally, and on his return became an earnest advocate of civilization, schools, and mission work. Throughout the outbreak of 1874-75 he held his band quiet at the agency. In 1881 he was again chosen as delegate, but was unable to go by reason of the death of his daughter, tribal custom forbidding participation in public business by anyone in mourning. As was common with the Plains Indians, he had two wives, who were sisters. His son, Harvey White Shield (see Hishkowits), is one of the best educated young men in the tribe and an efficient mission helper and interpreter. He died on January 8, in 1883.

Among the Northern Cheyenne was another White Shield, formerly known as Young Black Bird.
He was a son of Spotted Wolf and grandson of Whistling Elk. For his bravery at the Rosebud battle,
he received the name White Shield during the victory dance after that battle.

Greetings from Germany - cinemo

[machawk]

Thank you Cinemo..that is about as far as I managed to conclude also but was not aware of the third one (that you mentioned first. So, which one was the one who dreamed of the wolf pups being slaughtered before Sand Creek and tried to warn Black Kettle...the one who was his nephew I guess

[cinemo]

The vision of Gentle Horse

That warning was not at Sand Creek, but before the Washita battle ( 1868 ) See the text :

Black Hawk's brother White Shield (also known as Gentle Horse) had a vision of a wolf wounded on the right side of its head mourning its little ones which had been scattered and killed by a powerful enemy. He tried to persuade Black Kettle to move camp immediately, but was unsuccessful.

Source :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Washita_River

I know, that there was a brother of Black Kettle, who was named Gentle Horse. But, as far as I know, that brother was not named White Shield also.

I think, there was an other man with the name White Shield aka Gentle Horse . Presumably , here we have a historical confusion between two men.

cinemo

[shatonska]

White Shield aka Gentle Horse was a brother of Black Kettle

books.google.it/books?id=KkxaJWf0dpwC&pg=PA303&dq=cheyenne+campfire#v=onepage&q&f=true

from page 318 you have the whole story

[cinemo]

Hi , shatonska,

thank you for your contribution regarding White Shield aka Gentle Horse.

Despite your book hint, at this time ( today ), I'm still not convinced, whether these facts are correct.

For an example, as we know, Black Kettle had no children of his own.

I will try to find out, who was White Shield aka Gentle Horse and give you an answer in a couple of days.

But again, thank you for your reply.

Greetings - cinemo

[cinemo]

I will postpone my answer for one or two weeks. I have ordered a book, I hope to find more information regarding White Shield .

In between times an information regarding White Shield. When White Shield died in 1883, afterwards there was an other Southern Cheyenne chief with the same name. He was the leader of the Red Moon band. ( That chief was not Harvey White Shield, who was never a chief ) This band lived near Hammon ( Oklahoma ) .

Named for Indian Agent James H. Hammon, the community is a melding of two cultures. After the passage of the Dawes Severalty Act of 1887 the Cheyenne and Arapaho received 160-acre allotments. The most notable allotment, located adjacent to the north side of town, belonged to Chief White Shield. Until the 1960s many Cheyenne lived there communally in what was known as "White Shield Camp" or "Old Camp." Non-Indian settlers came to the area to establish homes and businesses during the Cheyenne-Arapaho land opening on April 19, 1892. After the land opening, James Hammon was sent to the Red Moon Agency, near the future site of Hammon, to build a reservation school and to teach the Cheyenne and Arapaho to farm. The Red Moon Agency was a subagency of the Cheyenne-Arapaho Agency at Darlington, north of Fort Reno.

There is a photograph of a Southern Cheyenne, that shows White Shield at the age 25 and a boy with the name Porcupine. The photograph was made by John K. Hillers in 1875.

cinemo

[cinemo]

Updating

Despite my long search, I found no hint or evidence, whether White Shield aka Gentle Horse and Gentle Horse ( brother of Chief Black Kettle ) have been the same person.

Personally I think, they were two differentially persons.

Sorry for my belated answer - cinemo

[shatonska]

Jul 25, 2014 14:20:44 GMT -5 cinemo said:

Updating

Despite my long search, I found no hint or evidence, whether White Shield aka Gentle Horse and Gentle Horse ( brother of Chief Black Kettle ) have been the same person.

Personally I think, they were two differentially persons.

Sorry for my belated answer - cinemo

we have almost no sources , impossible to know

[machawk]

Thank you shatonska and Cinemo. Well, I guess when there is not enough info out there I have license to wing it when writing the story but as I like to get it as historically correct as possible I have one observation regarding the information you have given me. The White Shield born on the upper Platte (the Moon Shield River) to me would make him originally a northerner and there is an account I came across that describes the White Shield who had the vision of the slain wolf pups as originally a northerner so it seems that everybody who has written anything at all about the two White Shields have all managed to confuse the two men's past history and origins.