Sitting Bull in hat

[grahamew]

Can anyone tell me who took this and when it was taken?

This site - hem.bredband.net/pedorch/foto_bull1.html - shows a print in a Gilbert mount, but from what I can make out of the text, credits the photo to R. L. Kelly, a photographer working in Pierre from 1880, and dates it to 1883; Markus Lindner's essay in North Dakota History on SB photos also dates it then, crediting it to either Scott at Fort Yates; Kelly in Pierre (while SB was en route from Fort Randall to Standing Rock); or to N. W. Chadron (surely a reference to the N. W. Photo Company of Chadron in N W Nebraska?). The version in Jensen, Paul and Carter's Eyewitness at Wounded Knee is marked on the print itself as copyrighted by the N W Photo Co, Chadron, Neb., as are, of course many of the photos of the aftermath of Wounded Knee. This would date it considerably later, but we know how photographers were fairly unscrupolous when it came to passing off the work of others as theirs and there are certainly Trager and Moreledge photos that have been deliberately mislabelled to increase their news-worthiness and value.

To me, this date seems a little early. I confess, I have no real evidence to date it later except that he looks older and considerably more haggard than in the Palmquist and Jurgens photos taken in 1884 and older than in the photo taken with his mother, daughter and others, usually dated 1883-4:






I also seem to recall Brock referring to Ernie LaPoint's testimony that SB didn't wear a hat until after he'd toured with Cody (although the man said to be him in that alleged Anderton photo taken at Fort Walsh in 1878 is wearing one). I have actually seen this in a Scott mount, although doesn't necessarilly mean anything...



Here's a closer view:

[tatanka]

I seem to remember too that this photo was taken during his time with Cody. Note the butterfly on the hatband!

[brock]

According to Ernie La Pointe the hat with the bow was given to Sitting Bull by Buffalo Bill Cody in St Louis which was the last stop of the tour...so it could be considered a goodbye gift. Prior to that he was given a beaver skin top hat in Bismark during Bismark's celebration of being named territorial capital. He went up there to hopefully meet President Arthur but instead was greeted by low level bureaucrat who was only authorized to give him the top hat. He did not wear the hat very much as it has very little in the way of sweat stains. However there is a good chance he wore it in Canada during his four month tour with Alvern Allen's wild west show named 'The Sitting Bull Combination'. He gave the top hat to a young boy in St Louis when he got the new hat with the bow from Cody. The top hat recently resurfaced and was purchased by Searle Chapman who gave it to Ernie. It now resides in Ernie's hands. As far as the hat with the bow...don't know where it ended up...my guess is it didn't survive.

[grahamew]

I've also seen this photo credited to Barry and the last time I saw it come up on an auction site, it was credited to Goff, although the mount had the imprint of Ingersoll Photo, St Paul!

[grahamew]

Just read Frank Goodyear's photo essay about Sitting Bull in South Dakota History (Summer 2010). The whole issue's a good read (articles by Kingsley, Ephriam and Robert Utley - and thanks for the heads up, KIngsley) and he reckons this is a R. L. Kelly photo dating from 1883 when Sitting Bull, as mentioned above, stopped at Pierre on his way from Fort Randall to Standing Rock. I'd love to know if there's documentation supporting this that confirms it is THIS photo...

I know Brock claimed he didn't wear a hat at that time and that this particular hat (it's a butterfly, though, not a bow) was the one Cody presented him, but the artist DeCost Smith, who met Sitting Bull in 1884, said he was wearing a felt hat then.

I don't have any particular axe to grind over this; it's just that I thought he looks older than he does in photos taken the year before (by Cross) and in the same year (by Miller). According to Goodyear, the N. W. Chadron copyright is down to that company getting a print and issuing it on their mounts, a common enough practice.

As stated earlier, 've seen the photo credited to other photographers - Gilbert, Barry, Scott and Goff - but I'd always gone for Scott because its style resembles his portraits of Running Antelope, Wolf Necklace, Big Head, Mad Bear, Paul Elk, Prett Bird and Mrs Two Bears, for example.







Now I know there are other backdrops associated with Scott's work, but when I look at the admittedly limited number of Kelly photos I know, NONE has that backdrop; in fact, those from that period are decorated with ferns, trees and flowers.



In a recent auction, this Scott photo was up for grabs along with some notes by the photographer:





The letter addresses someone asking for photos of notable Indian leaders:

Note on War Department, Signal Service, U.S. Army telegram form ("Form No. 202, 1887") and postal cover. Fort Yates, ND, 8 Dec. [1895]. Holographed by George W. Scott (1854-1910). To Charles Fish of Fall River, MA regarding images he has available and where Mr. Fish can acquire images of other people about whom he has inquired. The note gives information about Scott's other skills and activites at Fort Yates: ....[O]wing to extreme press of telegraphic work and photo orders have been unable to reply. I have none of the Indian photos you mention. Spotted Eagle can be obtained of R.L. Kelly, Pierre, SD. Crow Dog, spotted Tail, Red Cloud & son, of W.R. Cross, Ft. Meade, S.D. and some of balance any way of Mr. D.F. Barry, West Superior Wis. The only photos of note that I have aside from the principal chiefs, Gall, Rain in the face, Sitting Bull, John Grass, Mad Bear, and Big Head, are Wolf Necklace (decorated with 9 scalps), Hairy Chin, Long Dog, Mrs. Two Bear & papoose, "Scarlet Woman", (Mother of the new Messiah), a miniture [sic] of Sitting Bulls Ghost dance, besides others in native dress, dance costumes &c, &c.

The two cabinet cards in the lot are of Big Head and Scarlet Woman, both with Scott's Fort Yates, Dakota imprint. Both labels are handwritten on the cards, rather than the stamp more frequently encountered. The verso of Big Head also has Yanktonais Sioux Chief under Two Bears in both pencil and ink. On the latter, Scott has written: Scarlet Woman, Mother of Messiah" Sioux Ghost Dance 1891. The panic that ensued when Waluta Winyan claimed to be the mother of the risen Christ has been linked, at least indirectly, to the assassination of Sitting Bull and subsequent massacre at Wounded Knee Creek near Pine Ridge Agency.

www.cowanauctions.com/past_sales_view_item.asp?itemid=82308

Okay, he doesn't say that Kelly didn't take a photo of Sitting Bull, but he does say that he did. If not this one, then which?

Anyone know?

[ephriam]

The most detailed list of Sitting Bull's photographs appeared in Markus H. Lindner, "Family, Politics, and Show Business: The Photographs of Sitting Bull. North Dakota History, 72, nos. 3-4 (2005):2-21. His email is given as [e-mail]. Maybe we could get him to weigh in on the subject!

[Dietmar]

Gregor´s collection of Sitting Bull photographs is based on Lindner´s list. The photographs can be found at our main site:

www.american-tribes.com/Lakota/BIO/SittingBull-Hunkpapa.htm

[gregor]

As Dietmar said, my collection is based on the Lindner List from the North Dakota History 2005. Lindner mentions this pic as follows:

05 [George W. Scott], Sitting Bull.Fort Yates, D.T. [1883]
Lindner comments further that "Hollow and Hoover ascribe it to...R.L. Kelly and the Denver Public Library to N.W.Chadron".

Lindner was not the first to catalog SB photographs. In his article Lindner refers to a catalog compiled by one Elmo Scott Watson ("The Photographs od Sitting Bull, Westerners Brand Book 6, 1949"). Does anybody know this catalog?

I have 4 versions of the "Butterfly-Hat-Picture": one on a George W. Scott cardboard, one on a Zalman Gilbert cardboard, one atributed to R.L. Kelly an a hand-colored version ascribed to DeLancey W. Gill. In all cases the timeframe is 1881 to 1883 and the mentioned locations are Bismarck, Fort Yates and Pierre.

I personally think that this photo was taken after 1884. As mentioned before, SB looks older than in the family picture with his mother (she died in 1884). I think that this pic was shot while touring with Buffalo Bill (2nd half-year 1885) or shortly after that. And one last point: i found no evidence that SB ever wore a hat before touring with Buffalo Bills Wild West (yes, he was presented with a top hat in Bismarck, but did he wear the hat?).

There is the "March of civilization"- photograph of Barry, 1883 (Lindner List No. 06) with a man wearing a hat and carrying a flag. Lindner believes this man is Sitting Bull. I dont know his sources. I didn't find something about this march and Sitting Bull. Up to now I'm not convinced the man is SB.

[gregor]

Here some additional information and some links with regard to the "Butterfly"- picture:

photoswest.org/exhib/faves/bib/Z37.htm

Ernie LaPointe writes in his book “Sitting Bull: His life and Legacy”:
“When the show ended on October 3 [1885], Cody gave him a white hat with a monarch butterfly on the front of the hatband”

www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4927115

www.digitalhorizonsonline.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/uw-ndshs&CISOPTR=157&CISOBOX=1&REC=20

Picture on Fiske cardboard, but the photo is attributed to Stephen T. Fansler (b. 1866; d. 1952). Fansler joined the U.S. Army in 1890(8th cavalry) and was honorably discharged in 1892 at Fort Yates. Then he became the post photographer in Yates (his young apprentice was Frank Bennett Fiske). Thus it is unlikely that Fansler shot the “Butterfly”-picture.

www.cowanauctions.com/past_sales_view_item.asp?ItemId=37233

[grahamew]

I pretty much agree entirely, though I'm pretty sure DeCost Smith's first meeting with Sitting Bull occurred before his trip with Cody and he describes him as wearing a hat - I'll have to check this and get back to you later.

I've got another version in an Ingersoll Photo of St Paul, Minnesota mount - which is attributed to Goff!

[grahamew]

Thanks to Ephriam, I have contacted Markus Lindner and he hopes to join the dicussion soon.

Now I need to find my copy of DeCost Smith...

[ephriam]

Also, I wanted to comment on his catalog entry quoted above:

"05 [George W. Scott], Sitting Bull. Fort Yates, D.T. [1883]
Lindner comments further that "Hollow and Hoover ascribe it to...R.L. Kelly and the Denver Public Library to N.W. Chadron".

I suspect the N.W. Chadron is a misunderstanding. This image was later reprinted (pirated) by Gus Trager and Ernest Kuhn who operated the Northwest Photo Company in Chadron, Nebraska in 1889-90. My guess is that is what this "N.W. Chadron" is in reference to.

[grahamew]

Hmmmmmm.... just read Dennis Pope's Sitting Bull: Prisoner of War and it seems like R. C. Kelly did indeed photograph Sitting Bull in 1883. There's reference to a newspaper article of the time - though I would like to see the actual article to see if it mentions the butterfly in the hat or whether Pope, knowing that this photo has been credited to Kelly, has put two and two together and come up with five.

He does however, refer to SB attending a meeting with Agent McLaughlin in 1883 attired in white shirt, blue leggings, quilled moccasins and a blue infantry coat (presumably a gift from his captors) and wearing a slouch hat decorated with peacock feathers (presumably another gift).

[grahamew]

Couple more points:

DeCost Smith met Sitting Bull on his trip west in 1884 - and mentions him wearing a felt hat. Not that unsual for such a late date.

I've seen the photo credited to Fansler too (in the North Dakota State Historical Society), but I've also seen one of the Notman photos of Sitting Bull credited to Fansler.

I've also see the photo attributed to a photographer named Gibbon of Scotland, South Dakota:

[Californian]

I think this is a George W. Scott portrait, looks very similar in pose/appearance/lighting than many others from his studio - I would date it to 1889.