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Post by coeurrouge on Feb 21, 2012 13:09:32 GMT -5
I think the importance of the four directions and the trail of the Sun in the sky is also important for many native americans. I think remember, in a sweat lodge (I had come in one, once), people enter from the left and exit from the right of the entrance.
My ideas is that Chiricahuas paint their face left to right (east to west) because they looked at the South. By History and for many Natives indians, strong enemies came from south. It certainly to send a message to spirits, that the warriors were strong, ready to face the Enemy. Then Spirits or Usen would be proud to fight helping the warrior.
From North (because of the direction of cold winds?) come Diseases.
Just ideas not explanations.
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Post by kayitah on Feb 21, 2012 15:04:40 GMT -5
Of course it is, thank you my friend for correcting me. I can't believe I mixed it up, sorry. Probably because I watched the video before again and because the picture is, strangely enough, mirror inverted. no offense intended my friend thus forgot to add the vid had it the way you stated. yet the vid was made for other reasons, or growing up in the 1950's in OKLA. I was taught many ways and thing which seem today not to be as protrayed for the public, or this I knwo my lanugauge and also know of the WAR talk, which was given for medicine if going into WAR. Again no offense intended I know, don't worry. I never understood it as offensive, not in the least. Enju!
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Post by dT on Feb 22, 2012 13:00:58 GMT -5
Couerrouge ... very interesting comments. It would certainly seem to make sense and be consistent with the world view of the Chiricahua. I will post if I learn more, and perhaps others will also share their thoughts.
dT
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Post by Montolzh on Feb 23, 2012 14:30:14 GMT -5
First, I want to thank the people who posted the link to the video. I appreciate very much your detailed memory of these things. Next ... I want to thank Montolzh. Because there is the wisdom of a people buried in these actions - which look simple. Things which seem simple - are not so simple. So I wondered to myself - why should the line be painted from left to right? Yes, it is related to the turning of the Earth. And how do the Apache relate to this turning ... certainly I would guess it is through their own knowledge of the motion of the stars and the sun. So let's consider this....So perhaps the direction of SOUTH plays an important part in the Apache world view. Or I could have things quite wrong. Maybe if Montolzh is kind enough ... he might explain further. dT Funny you should ask this, because when I was a boy, I asked my Grandmother this same questions. The only way I know how to explain is this what she told me. In the beginning when Ussen made the earth, it was just a small ball of dirt. He was needing help to make it a big place where the people can live. Spider said, I can help do this. So he wraps his web around the ball and then using his black web, he pulls it to the East. Then Spider did the same thing again, this time using his blue web and pulled it to the South. Spider used his yellow web and pulled it to the West. And at the last, Spider used his white web and pulled it to the North. Spider then went back to the East and pulled his web very tightly making the Earth bigger. Spider went to his blue web tighter making the Earth bigger still. Spider went to the yellow web and pulled it tightly make the even bigger yet. And Spider went to the White web and pulled the Earth up so that it was no longer the small ball of dirt any more. Spider did this thing four times in all, until the Earth was big for us to live on and pulled into the sky. Seeing Spider working so hard, Ussen made four poles to prop the Earth up. He told Black wind, here take this black pole here to the east and prop up the Earth. He told Blue wind, here take this blue pole here to the south and prop the Earth up. He told Yellow wind, here take this yellow pole to the West to prop the Earth up, and he told White wind, here take this white pole to the North to prop the Earth up. After this Spider went to live in the sky and at night when you look up you can see him. This is why we go that way, because Spider is always going like this working to keep the web tight. You know that Spider web is very strong, and this is why we don't kill Spiders because Spider might send his relatives to take revenge. If you accidently kill one, you have to say; It wasn't me that did it, it was somebody else. -- Totally off subject, but maybe you can understand why we go that way left to right, and that's why we do that 'clockwise'. You may want to ask somebody when you are here in Arizona, because that is all I know why.
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Post by dT on Feb 23, 2012 19:02:08 GMT -5
What a great story! Thanks for sharing that one. There really should be a place somewhere on this Internet site where all those stories from the elders and grandparents can be recorded. It would be such a shame - if they were lost.
thanks Montolzh !! dT
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Post by Carey on May 7, 2018 3:07:20 GMT -5
I was bleased and honored to be shown a buffalo skull that had been used in ceremony by our ancestors. The skull showed me many images of our ancestors, one image after another. I was even shown a cavalry man. The last thing I was shown was an image of myself with a white band of paint across my eyes and nose. Just white, with no border. This skull holds great power and holds within it much wisdom and inspires awe and one has the feeling that this is much more than an artifact. It seems to contain memories, and knowledge of vast untold wisdom. I would greatly appreciate any information anyone may be able to share with me so that I may better understand this gift of the vision I was shown. I am native, although I don't know a lot about my heritage, I am trying to learn. Any wisdom shared would be greatly appreciated and honored.
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Post by dT on May 16, 2018 0:01:02 GMT -5
Carey
just a simple suggestion. you would do best to actually go to a reservation, introduce yourself, and talk to people there. You would probably get more answers that are helpful.
best wishes, Pete (dT)
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Post by Bri Wings on Jan 31, 2019 19:27:35 GMT -5
I would greatly appreciate some insight for my question if possible. I am a very spiritual person, I do have Native American heritage...I have a Native American Healer guide & while doing a cleansing I saw him working on me. O could only see his eyes, body & profile but his eyes had horizontal white lines from bridge of nose to eyebrows, temple to temple. Can anyone tell me what this means?
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Post by treeTops on Oct 13, 2019 23:42:16 GMT -5
When Geronimo married, like other Apache grooms, he moved to the clan of his wife. After Geronimo left, his clan was wiped out. In mourning for his people, Geronimo put a white stripe across his face. The other men from the tribe likewise put on the white stripe to show mourning. When Geronimo came back to the camp, the other men liked the look of it, and they also wore a white stripe.
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Nahi
New Member
Posts: 45
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Post by Nahi on Oct 14, 2019 2:05:24 GMT -5
When Geronimo married, like other Apache grooms, he moved to the clan of his wife. After Geronimo left, his clan was wiped out. In mourning for his people, Geronimo put a white stripe across his face. The other men from the tribe likewise put on the white stripe to show mourning. When Geronimo came back to the camp, the other men liked the look of it, and they also wore a white stripe. Hi Tree Tops, I suppose you are talking about the 1851 attack of the Mexican militia where Alope and his family died. There are many photos where they show that white paint used for example for warpath (Fly C.S.'s photos of March 1886) but I did not know about the origin of that white stripe. Is there any written source of that info or is it transmitted orally from generation to generation? If there is anything written I ' d really appreciate it if you share it. I find it really interesting.
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Post by marinajr on Feb 21, 2022 15:14:33 GMT -5
When Geronimo married, like other Apache grooms, he moved to the clan of his wife. After Geronimo left, his clan was wiped out. In mourning for his people, Geronimo put a white stripe across his face. The other men from the tribe likewise put on the white stripe to show mourning. When Geronimo came back to the camp, the other men liked the look of it, and they also wore a white stripe. As an Apache, I have to completely disagree with this. Everything we do has meaning, it would never be because "the other men liked the look of it"
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