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Post by tkavanagh on Sept 2, 2010 11:10:40 GMT -5
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Post by tkavanagh on Sept 2, 2010 11:02:50 GMT -5
After I posted that message before I went to find my Soule and L&S photos but couldn't. ;-(
Although the two seem to show the same (fairly unique) necklace and double cross), IIRC, the headdress in the L&S appears in other L&S pix suggesting that it is a prop. Also, note in the L&S the proper numunapU moccasins.
Again, the name "Kobay-O-burra" is meaningless in NumutekwapU. I don't know where it came from. It is not on the census lists, nor apparently in any contemporary documensts that I have seen other than these photos.
Do you know who made the first pic? Was it Soule or Bliss?
tk
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Post by tkavanagh on Sept 2, 2010 8:36:31 GMT -5
I've never been really sure that this is Kobe 'Wild Horse'. The'o-burra' part of that name is not Numunuu, gthe face paint seems wrong, and those are not /numunapU/ Comanche moccasins.
tk
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Post by tkavanagh on Sept 1, 2010 16:00:41 GMT -5
Yah know, it might have been chaat if you put my name as author at the top of the page.
tk
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Post by tkavanagh on Sept 1, 2010 15:57:55 GMT -5
Yes. (or no) : I know of no photo of ParuaKuhma
The Soule photo of "Paruakuhma's village" is part of the same village the one that I have identified as Horseback's, winter, 1872-73.
There are three Soule photos of HB and his sons.
tk
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Post by tkavanagh on Sept 1, 2010 14:55:34 GMT -5
BTW
You might change the thread title to Paruacoom/Terheryahkwahip.
tk
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Post by tkavanagh on Sept 1, 2010 14:53:19 GMT -5
Or one of them.
I still don't know who is "Johnny Horseback."
tk
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Post by tkavanagh on Sept 1, 2010 14:10:43 GMT -5
I'm just gonna throw this one out:
One of the major problems in interpreting Comanche history is that early bit when they were "allied" with Utes, and then somehow, ca 1730, became allienated from them.
Pekka Hämäläinen's _Comanche Empire_ has a map which shows them *as a single group* migrating out out Wyoming, then turning west and traveling up the Arkansas to join the Utes, from whom they *as a group* then split some 30 years later.
I think this is a crock.
Look at Miera y Pachecos's maps: they show not a single group, but descrete groups all the way from Wyoming to New Mexico.
Moreover, if /kɨ.ˈman.ʧi,/ means 'those people over there' , it does not necessarily mean Numunuu.
The earliest mention of recognizable Numunuu words in the New Mexico records are not until about 1750.
Just like "Padouca" had been attached to various peoples, perhaps pre-1750 "Comanche" has also been attached to non-Numunuu.
I've talked about this to a variety of contemporary Numunuu, including gthe Tribal Historal Preservation Officer (and remember, I am the Comanche Nation's Consulting Anthropologist), and they agree with then geneal premise.
tk
ps. Fehrenbach is also a crock.
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Post by tkavanagh on Sept 1, 2010 13:52:54 GMT -5
Also, BTW:
My book, _Comanche Political History_ (1996), has been criticized for not mentioning either Peta Nocana nor Quanah. That is for the very simple reason that neither are mentioned in the contemporary history materials.
The earliest mention of Quanah seem to be J.J. Sturm's account of his 1875 trip out to the Llano to try to bring in the Kwahadas.
The earliest mention of Nocona wasn't until the 1880s with whats'his name's bio of Quanah.
tk
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Post by tkavanagh on Sept 1, 2010 13:44:23 GMT -5
BTW: The identification of this guy as Paruakuhma came from Ned Timbo, son of Tahchachi Timbo, son of Paruakuhma, who saw this pic at the Smithsonian and thought he looked like his father.
tk
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Post by tkavanagh on Sept 1, 2010 13:38:26 GMT -5
Again, sorry to be so late: This may be the son of Terheryaquahip, 'Horseback', in whose village the pic was made (see php.indiana.edu/~tkavanag/asoule.html). And please, no hypens in names: he was Paruacoom, /parua/ 'bear', /kuhma/ 'male'. tk
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Post by tkavanagh on Sept 1, 2010 13:30:28 GMT -5
Sorry to be so late.
The name Isatai was applied to Quenatosavit after the debacle at Adobe Walls in 1874.
/isa/ 'wolf'
/tai/ 'vulva'
'Rear End of a Female Wolf'
tk
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