Lone Horn of the North

[carlcdupree]

I was positive Lone/One Horn was listed in the Crazy Horse surrender ledger. I will have to research that and post it.

[nicolas (carlo)]

Apr 14, 2010 9:03:00 GMT -5 kingsleybray said:

Brock, thankyou very much for the information you posted on Lone Horn and the Black Hills issue. Lone Horn certainly went to Washington with the Cheyenne River Agency delegation in May-June 1875, then attended the great Black Hills council near Red Cloud Agency the following September, when he spoke out against the proposed sale or leasing of the Hills. During October he travelled north to counsel with Sitting Bull at the Hunkpapa fall hunting camp on the lower Yellowstone, assuring Sitting Bull that he had declared against the sale proposals. He then (roughly, November) returned to his own wintering camp on the Cheyenne River. The exact location of this camp would be interesting to know. It clearly wasn't at the agency located near the mouth of the Cheyenne, but it may have been along the middle course of the main river, maybe the Cherry Creek area, or even further up near the Forks. Do the family know where Lone Horn himself was buried? That might help pinpoint it. Lone Horn died during the winter 1875/76 - I lean to it being early, around December perhaps. The words used, that he died of "grief" or "shame" over the Black Hills match the account you give, with the chief feeling that he had been morally tainted by his involvement in the Black Hills negotiations. It was a tragedy, Lone Horn was one of the great statesmen of the Lakota people.

Touch the Clouds went to Washington two years later, in Sept. 1877 as part of the delegation from Spotted Tail Agency. He went as the spokesman for those Miniconjous who had at the end of the 'Great Sioux War' surrendered at Spotted Tail.

Kingsley

Kingsley,

On Lone Horn's death in 1875 (see post above); is there a possibility that Lone Horn was the same person mentioned in Bad Heart Bull's notes, page 504n25?

Since it links to an event with Hump, we can see the Miniconjou connection. Would welcome any thoughts. 

[kingsleybray]

Amos Bad Heart Bull entered a few written notes at the end of his ledger book. They're in chronological order. The one carlo is referring to no. 25 (of 26) and comes immediately after no. 23 which is dated to 1874.

Helen Blish's text p. 504 reads:

"25. Two notes in Lakota. Translation: 1. 'Two Crows. Hump.' 2. 'One Horn was killed.' In a Sioux-Crow encounter, a Dakota, Hump, killed two Crows. But in the same fight, a Sioux named One Horn was also killed. I cannot now identify the occasion more definitely."

The event took place in 1875. The man called One Horn was not the famous chief Lone Horn, who coincidentally died the same year (December 1875, at his winter camp near the confluence of Cherry creek and Cheyenne River). There is a brief confused reference to the killing in a report in the Red Cloud Agency correspondence, dateline August 16th, 1875: "Lone Horn of the North, whom I have mentioned in several of my reports, was killed in a battle with the Crow Indians about two weeks ago. All six of his men were killed." So here Agent Saville is conflating the killed warrior One Horn with the famous chief.

Eagle Elk also refers to the fight with the Crows in which One Horn was killed in his 1944 interviews with John G. Neihardt. Eagle Elk states that One Horn and a comrade called Charger were killed together; five other Lakotas were killed in another skirmish close by at the same time.

I'm not sure but I think this man One Horn is the same as the man listed as a headman of the Oglala Oyuhpe band in 1865 (the Big Ribs memorandum which Ephriam has posted on American-tribes.com).

IN August 1875 the Northern Indians or summer roamers, non-treaty people -- what Lakotas called Waziyata Oyate, the Northern Nation -- were camped on upper Tongue river near modern Sheridan, WYO. There were Oglalas, Miniconjous, Hunkpapas, Sans Arcs, and Cheyennes. Hump was certainly in the village.

[nicolas (carlo)]

Great stuff Kingsley, it did not occur to me to link Eagle Elk's One Horn with BHB's One Horn as I assumed the latter was a Miniconjou. Hadn't seen Saville's comments before, but I did think for a second that I had perhaps stumbled on information on the 1875 death of the famous Lone Horn, but clearly not... Just a coincidence.

The fight Kingsley refers to took place on July 24 & 25, 1875, near where modern Lewistown now stands, and is known among the Mountain Crows for the death of their beloved chief Long Horse. Lakotas stole horses from the Crow camp and from nearby Reed & Bowles Trading Post and were pursued by the Crows, who managed to retrieve all their horses, plus seven scalps (Plenty Coups securing one). Interesting to think that Hump was a participant, yet the Crows only noted one of their number killed (being Long Horse), not more--perhaps the two mentioned by BHB refer to coups rather than kills, as seems to be the case with a few other entries in his ledger. Note that the killer of Long Horse was himself killed moments later, so it could not have been Hump.

[kingsleybray]

that's fascinating carlo, what is the source/s for the raid on July 24-25, 1875?

re-reading Eagle Elk's account I think he means that One Horn and Charger were Oglalas; and that five other Lakotas, belonging to other tribal divisions, were also killed in the scrap. I'm sure Eagle Elk knew what he was talking about, but I get the feeling that Neihardt's interpreter may have been floundering at places.

I have been told that there was a prominent Oglala warrior, of the Bad Face band, called Charger, Waanatan, active in the period. He was a member of the White Horse Owners society. This may be the same man.

Re the death of the famous chief Lone Horn: I have been told that he died in December 1875 when his camp was located at the mouth of Cherry creek.

[kingsleybray]

Chapter XVIII of Frank B. Linderman, PLENTY COUPS, CHIEF OF THE CROWS, has a stirring account of the battle in which Long Horse was killed. He "was worth all the Sioux that ever lived", Plenty Coups states in national pride (p.283).

[Dietmar]

Long Horse, Crow, 1873

[nicolas (carlo)]

Jun 3, 2020 8:56:28 GMT -5 kingsleybray said:

Chapter XVIII of Frank B. Linderman, PLENTY COUPS, CHIEF OF THE CROWS, has a stirring account of the battle in which Long Horse was killed. He "was worth all the Sioux that ever lived", Plenty Coups states in national pride (p.283).

Indeed, Long Horse was very popular and his death was greatly mourned by his people. Plenty Coups himself was very active in the fight, killing one of the Lakota horse thieves.
(Btw, Plenty Coups made an error in placing the fight near Fort Maginnis, but that post wasn’t built until 1880.)

Talking about national pride: according to one source, Long Horse with his dying breath advised the warriors crowding around him to “Never shake hands with the Sioux, but rather die as I die.” He died moments later.

[nicolas (carlo)]

Jun 3, 2020 8:28:56 GMT -5 kingsleybray said:

that's fascinating carlo, what is the source/s for the raid on July 24-25, 1875?

re-reading Eagle Elk's account I think he means that One Horn and Charger were Oglalas; and that five other Lakotas, belonging to other tribal divisions, were also killed in the scrap. I'm sure Eagle Elk knew what he was talking about, but I get the feeling that Neihardt's interpreter may have been floundering at places.

I have been told that there was a prominent Oglala warrior, of the Bad Face band, called Charger, Waanatan, active in the period. He was a member of the White Horse Owners society. This may be the same man.

Re the death of the famous chief Lone Horn: I have been told that he died in December 1875 when his camp was located at the mouth of Cherry creek.

Yes, I have seen the December 1875 reference on Long Horse's death also (can't remember where), and Frederick Hoxie says it was 1874 based on Plenty Coups age, but both are incorrect. Without doubt, he died in the aforementioned fight on July 25, 1875. 

On dating:
Several newspapers reported on the fight and on Long Horse’s death, including the Bismarck Tribune, August 11; New York Herald, August 17; and Daily Independent, August 12, 1875. (The latter has quoted the chief's dying words.)
Traveler P.W. Norris, through his letters, left us a detailed description of Long Horse’s funeral lodge. Norris was returning from a private tour of Yellowstone National Park and on his way back to his home near Detroit when he passed by Camp Lewis in September.

The late John S. Gray wrote an excellent article based on the writings of George Bird Grinnell (who visitied Camp Lewis the very next day and learned of the fight from Yellowstone Kelly), William Ludlow, Frank Linderman, P.W. Norris, and James S.R. Wilson. The article, entitled "Long Horse Leads His Last War Party”, was printed in the Westerners Brand Book, Chicago, August 1964, p.41-43 & 47-48. The dates are confirmed here as well.

NB: Dating is always easier when horses owned by whites are stolen, since traders and the army kept track to a degree of these thefts. On both days, US Army horses were taken by the Lakotas. 

My additional sources on details of the fighting itself are:
Linderman, Plenty-coups, 152-156 (new edition page numbers, same as chapter 18); Linderman, Pretty-shield, 14-16; Kelly, Yellowstone Kelly, 117, 135-136; Hillside in Lowie, Religion of the Crow Indians, 393-394; Eagle Elk in Neihardt Papers, C3716, Folder 431. ....And now Bad Heart Bull & Blish, Pictographic History, 504n25.

Hope this helps!
 

[nicolas (carlo)]

Jun 3, 2020 9:02:53 GMT -5 Dietmar said:

Long Horse, Crow, 1873

Yes, this is the famous Long Horse. 

Pretty Shield suggested that Long Horse was a River Crow headman (“our chief”), while Plenty Coups implied he belonged to the Mountain Crows (“our great war-chief”), yet neither conclusively confirmed Long Horse’s band affiliation. However, Lt. Colonel Forsyth has him specifically listed as a Mountain Crow chief after he met him in June 1875, and he correctly noted the band affiliation of all other Crow headmen he met that day. In addition, Commissioner F.R. Brunot confirmed that Long Horse was one of the principle Mountain Crow headmen during the 1873 agency negotiations. Cf. Forsyth and Grant, Expedition Up the Yellowstone, 11; and Brunot in ARCIA 1873, 124-125.

Incidently, Long Horse's brother (name unknown) was killed at the Second Battle of Arrow Creek, July 9, 1873. He left much of the discussion with Brunot about relocating the Crow Agency to Black Foot, as he was mourning his borther, who died only weeks before.

[calvinspottedelk]

Mar 28, 2010 19:02:28 GMT -5 brock said:

According to the Clown family who is a direct descendant of Lone Horn through Talks About Him, Lone Horn died in the fall of 1874. I think a big physical difference in the photos is in the pipe. The 1868 pipe is obviously a council pipe which would be a head man's pipe. The pipe in the 1875 photo is a much smaller personal pipe with a different design near the bowl. The pipe is part of the sacred bundle so to be substituted for would be doubtful. I seriously doubt that the 1875 photos are Lone Horn. Don't know on 1851. Be nice if the picture showed the entire pipe.

So was his father Black Buffalo? because we were told Lone Horn was the son of Black Buafflo but we don't have probate papers going back that far and there is a lot of confusion on the earlier ones. Red Fish looks like Lone Horn, though. I do also remember a Red Fish but I thought he was older than Black Buffalo.