Post by kingsleybray on Mar 24, 2010 13:29:11 GMT -5
Yes Carlo, Big Crow was indeed a Miniconjou. The winter counts record his death at the hands of Crows while out hunting magpies (for the feathers) on the Belle Fourche R. early in 1859. It is a fascinating detail from brock that Touch the Clouds was an eyewitness to the event.
Big Crow was one of the sons of Black Shield, the Miniconjou chief. My feeling would be that Black Shield was born about 1810, Big Crow about 1835, so the latter was a contemporary of Touch the Clouds. According to Joseph White Bull (Walter Campbell papers) Black Shield was one of the leaders of the Eat No Dogs (Shunka yute-shni) band of Miniconjou. My own informants have stated that this was the band of Hump, also.
Up until 1840 one of the large main bands of the Miniconjou tribe was called Wanin-waktonila (means something like Killed Accidentally), also known by the similarly-sounding name Wanhin Wega, Broken Arrow. As said this was a big band, rated by Joseph Nicollet in 1839 at 80 lodges, equivalent to about 500 or 600 people. That year the band broke up, and out of the split-up a new tribal division was formed, the Oohe nompa or Two Kettles. One of the sub-bands of the Broken Arrow was the Eat No Dogs. Part of this group stayed with the Miniconjou, and formed the band led by Black Shield, No Heart, the Hump family and other prominent tiwahe. Part of the Eat No Dogs certainly aligned themselves with the newly independent Two Kettles, however, because the Long Mandan family were rated as of the Eat No Dogs band by Josephine Waggoner. Undoubtedly family ties remained strong across the tribal divide, a lot of visiting back and forth, and so in this sense Big Crow and his family might be rated Two Kettle.
Some additional pieces: Mallery claims that Big Crow received his name from killing a Crow (man) of unusual size earlier in life, and White Bull's account states that Big Crow was killed together with his brother and possibly another person.
You made me curious about the circumstances of his death, as I noticed many Winter Counts mention his death by Crows, but had not seen many additional details. What is the source of the information on hunting magpies, the location of the Belle Fourche and the time of the year?
Post by swiftbird659 on Jun 12, 2011 13:48:33 GMT -5
Can anyone help with more info on Big Crow? Here`s what i show so far, Big Crow son of Black Shield or Talkative and Needle. One brother named John Yearling or Hollow Horn aka Pacansinhuta, Cheyenne River Sioux allottee No. 914. One sister Esther Takes Him Standing or Mrs. Alex Larrabee, Cheyenne River Sioux allottee No. 860. Big Crows maternal grandparents being Hit on the Leg and Red Buffalo Woman. They had three Children, one girl, Needle,(Big Crows mother) and two boys, Stands Up or Hell Diver and Hunts Horses aka Red Flying(Big Crows uncles)
Another son of Black Shield was killed together with Big Crow in 1859. Many winter counts mention the killing of the two young men, but the name of the brother is never mentioned. However, in Long Soldier's Hunkpapa count, we see for that same year "Chief Tied Braid was killed by Crows in war" – was this another name for Big Crow, or was this his brother?
Examining the various sources, we see that the winter counts often confuse Big Crow (the son) with Big Crow (the father, actually Black Shield). I would conclude from this that Big Crow (the son) actually received his name from his father, who was also known as Big Crow before and now took the name Black Shield. Some sources reveal that Big Crow got his name from killing a Crow man of unusual size, a feat that would then have to be linked to Black Shield.
So, in conclusion, I am inclined to believe that Tied Braid was the name of Big Crow (the son), before he acquired his father’s name.
More on Big Crow, the elder: In American Horse’s count, we see that a Big Crow gave a feast together with Conquering Bear in 1846-1847; given the approximate birth date of Big Crow (the son) in 1835 (see above in the thread), this could not have been him, but only his father. In 1846 Francis Parkman lived in this chief Big Crow’s lodge for a while, see Parkman, ‘Oregon Trail’, p191. Important to note is that that Parkman supposedly lived among the Oglala, but I’m not sure that was the only Lakota division present there – if it was actually a joint Oglala-Miniconjou camp, then we may have our man Black Shield. Parkman mentions his lodge has “two or three children”, would be nice to think these were the two brothers.
Does anyone know more about Parkman’s time with the Lakota to establish the band affiliation of this Big Crow?
Post by kingsleybray on Jun 27, 2012 13:13:13 GMT -5
I dont think there's any direct connection between the Big Crow met by Francis Parkman in 1846 and the one killed by the Crows in 1859.
Parkman traveled with the Southern Oglalas, and in this phase of his travels specifically with the Red Water band.
The civil leaders of the band were Le Borgne (bn c. 1765) and old Red Water (born c. 1785). Big Crow and his brother Eagle Feather were sons of old Red Water, both born c. 1810-20. Note Big Crow had a young family in 1846. By contrast Big Crow k. in 1859 was the son of Black Shield (aka Chest), the chief of the Eat No Dogs band of Miniconjou, and was likely a young man in his early 20s.
You may have something with the suggestion that Big Crow's brother is the man mentioned in Long Soldier's winter count.