Sitting Bull – The Photographs

[grahamew]

Here's a pdf of Frank Goodyear's article, Wanted: Sitting Bull and His Photographic Portrait.

www.sdshspress.com/index.php?&id=754&sub_action=1&vehcpahb=vehcpahb&action=960

Still not sure about the hat photo being taken in 1883...

[grahamew]

Two points:

1/ When Sitting Bull visited Pierre and had his photo taken by Kelly in 1883, it was stated in reports that he was wearing a white shirt. Okay, he could have slipped into the Metis-style coat, the hat and the plaid shirt in the studio, but it seems unlikely. Still think that photo is later and that it's by Scott.

2/ The photo Dietmar posted last page was taken by D S Cole in Hot Springs, 1901:



Back row, l-r: Little Boys, Jumping Chaser/Kicking Bear, Bear Paint Himself, White Bull
Front row, l-r: Barearm Necklaces, Young Sitting Bull, White Buffalo/Sitting Bull, Jr., Young Eagle Bear




Young Sitting Bull and White Buffalo/Sitting Bull, Jr.

Dietmar previously posted this photo:



You'll see they're the same men in the photo above.

[piikani]

Graham....to which SB are we looking at? To me the man doesn't look either to the Oglala or Hunkpapa.

Henri

[grahamew]

Neither. If you read the earlier posts, they'll give you some context. It's more a case of wondering whether these two are related to either. The photos were taken long after the death of the more famous Sitting Bulls. It has been suggested that the man with the jacket and bonnet is one of the Hunkpapa's sons, but who knows...?

[gregor]

Folks, I believe, that one of the men is Sitting Bull's only surviving son (one of a pair of twins?), later known as William Sitting Bull.
Remember we have a 1891 Photo by Barry, showing the two widows, 2 daughters and a boy about 12 or 14 in front of a Tipi with a caption "Sitting Bulls's Family".

In March 1908 William wrote to Standing Rock Agency, Fort Yates, N.D. to be transfered to Standing Rock with his mother Four Robes Woman (Seen-By-The-Nation died in 1897).
This was denied. William died one year later (December 8, 1909). His age was given with 42, but I think that is not correct. He was more in his thirties.

See also here:
www.primeau.org/sittingbull/wmsittingbull.html


digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/ref/collection/p15330coll22/id/69304

[Dietmar]

Above the same man from an earlier post.
I saved another scan of the same photo as "Willie Deaf & Dumb". That might be another indication that your suggestion of William could be right.


Gregor, any idea who the second Sitting Bull in the group photo might be?

[gregor]

Dietmar, I dont know, if the man above is really a "Sittting Bull". Im refering to the man in the above sepia photo (2nd left, post from Jun 17, 2015). I believe this is William Sitting Bull, who died in 1909. According to my file, the photo was shot in 1905.

To me "Willie Deaf & Dumb" is a mixture out of William Sitting Bull and John Sitting Bull aka Louis Sitting Bull aka Refuses Them aka Nurcan or Deaf & Dumb. John Sitting Bull was SB's stepson. His mother was Seen-By-her-Nation, his father Bear Louse, a Minikowozu.

William Sitting Bull was married to Scout Woman. Their only daughter was Nancy Sitting Bull Stewart (1903? - 1959).

[grahamew]

So maybe it shows William and John...?

[gregor]

Grahamew,it's hard to tell who is who. But after spending some time with these photos I tend to believe, that this man



is John Sitting Bull (around 1905 and 1920) and that this young guy



is William Sitting Bull.

With John SB I see also a strong resemblance to Seen-By-Her-Nation
So, with regard to the identification in the sepia photo I tend more and more to John Sitting Bull. I believe the identification as William is incorrect.

[gregor]

And here the mothers



Four Robes and Seen-By-her-Nation

[grahamew]

That looks like a good call to me, Gregor.

[Californian]

I recently acquired this image at Cowan's Auctions, it is attributed to George W. Scott appears to be dated November 1889.

This iconic Sitting Bull image has also been attributed to Zalman Gilbert who operated a studio at Mandan, Dakota Territory, and I know that D. F. Barry and also Frank B. Fiske published it among others. I seem to be inclined to believe that it is indeed George W. Scott's work, not Gilbert's but certainly would welcome any critical comments. 

On one of the Fiske reprints on the reverse side it is stated that the portrait was taken in November 1889 - Fiske having been the successor of S. T. Fansler and the latter seemingly of George W. Scott would led some credence to the photographer's attribution. The portrait decidedly shows an older Sitting Bull, rather tired looking, I would almost say demoralized looking. The pose and exposure are similar to other George W. Scott portraits. 

click onto images to enlarge

Attachments:

[grahamew]

Still think this is a Scott photo and that it's later than 83.

[Dietmar]

Peter has sent me this photo of Sitting Bull´s family. There must have been an earlier discussion about who had shot the photo, but I can´t find it.

However, I think we haven´t found the original photographer, did we? Did Eastman´s studio take the picture originally?:

[peter]

Dietmar, this is the original photo we own. Nothing in the back of the photograph to show who was the photographer.