1/ When Sitting Bull visited Pierre and had his photo taken by Kelly in 1883, it was stated in reports that he was wearing a white shirt. Okay, he could have slipped into the Metis-style coat, the hat and the plaid shirt in the studio, but it seems unlikely. Still think that photo is later and that it's by Scott.
2/ The photo Dietmar posted last page was taken by D S Cole in Hot Springs, 1901:
Back row, l-r: Little Boys, Jumping Chaser/Kicking Bear, Bear Paint Himself, White Bull Front row, l-r: Barearm Necklaces, Young Sitting Bull, White Buffalo/Sitting Bull, Jr., Young Eagle Bear
Young Sitting Bull and White Buffalo/Sitting Bull, Jr.
Dietmar previously posted this photo:
You'll see they're the same men in the photo above.
Last Edit: Jun 17, 2015 13:09:39 GMT -5 by grahamew
Neither. If you read the earlier posts, they'll give you some context. It's more a case of wondering whether these two are related to either. The photos were taken long after the death of the more famous Sitting Bulls. It has been suggested that the man with the jacket and bonnet is one of the Hunkpapa's sons, but who knows...?
Last Edit: Jun 19, 2015 10:37:10 GMT -5 by grahamew
Folks, I believe, that one of the men is Sitting Bull's only surviving son (one of a pair of twins?), later known as William Sitting Bull. Remember we have a 1891 Photo by Barry, showing the two widows, 2 daughters and a boy about 12 or 14 in front of a Tipi with a caption "Sitting Bulls's Family".
In March 1908 William wrote to Standing Rock Agency, Fort Yates, N.D. to be transfered to Standing Rock with his mother Four Robes Woman (Seen-By-The-Nation died in 1897). This was denied. William died one year later (December 8, 1909). His age was given with 42, but I think that is not correct. He was more in his thirties.
Dietmar, I dont know, if the man above is really a "Sittting Bull". Im refering to the man in the above sepia photo (2nd left, post from Jun 17, 2015). I believe this is William Sitting Bull, who died in 1909. According to my file, the photo was shot in 1905.
To me "Willie Deaf & Dumb" is a mixture out of William Sitting Bull and John Sitting Bull aka Louis Sitting Bull aka Refuses Them aka Nurcan or Deaf & Dumb. John Sitting Bull was SB's stepson. His mother was Seen-By-her-Nation, his father Bear Louse, a Minikowozu.
William Sitting Bull was married to Scout Woman. Their only daughter was Nancy Sitting Bull Stewart (1903? - 1959).
Grahamew,it's hard to tell who is who. But after spending some time with these photos I tend to believe, that this man
is John Sitting Bull (around 1905 and 1920) and that this young guy
is William Sitting Bull.
With John SB I see also a strong resemblance to Seen-By-Her-Nation So, with regard to the identification in the sepia photo I tend more and more to John Sitting Bull. I believe the identification as William is incorrect.
Post by Californian on Dec 10, 2017 17:04:11 GMT -5
I recently acquired this image at Cowan's Auctions, it is attributed to Orlando Scott Goff and appears to be dated approx. 1883 or around the time when Sitting Bull first settled at Standing Rock after his internment at Fort Randall. Goff at that time operated a branch studio at Fort Yates. The print's format and appearance can be dated to around 1900 to 1910, it possibly is a reprint off the original negative and by Goff himself as I have seen similar prints and print stock of other photos (not Sitting Bull) but clearly identified as being from his studio.
Goff, after he had sold his business interests to his partner David Francis Barry relocated to Montana (see biography: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_Scott_Goff) and thus this particular print probably was made there.
This iconic Sitting Bull image has also been attributed to Zalman Gilbert who operated a studio at Mandan, Dakota Territory, and I know that D. F. Barry published it among others. I seem to be inclined to believe that it is Goff's work, not Gilbert's but certainly would welcome any critical comments. That Barry published it and him having been Goff's former business partner seems to lend additional credence to my assumption.