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Post by grahamew on Nov 24, 2013 15:33:02 GMT -5
The same White Eagle?
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Post by RedLightening2015 on Feb 24, 2015 23:15:14 GMT -5
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Post by RedLightening2015 on Feb 24, 2015 23:18:58 GMT -5
finally figured out how to upload pics on here...
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Post by natasha on Jun 4, 2017 20:25:00 GMT -5
My first post here...hope I am doing this correctly and in the right category. My husband descends directly from Gabriel Renville and wife Sophia Hu Tecawin. I have been given conflicting information about Gabriel's three wives and was wondering if anybody knew for sure here. Were they the daughters of Scarlet Plume (Scarlet Eagle Plume)? Also...why the heck is there so very little information about Scarlet Plume?
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Post by natasha on Jun 13, 2017 11:08:57 GMT -5
My first post here...hope I am doing this correctly and in the right category. My husband descends directly from Gabriel Renville and wife Sophia Hu Tecawin. I have been given conflicting information about Gabriel's three wives and was wondering if anybody knew for sure here. Were they the daughters of Scarlet Plume (Scarlet Eagle Plume)? Also...why the heck is there so very little information about Scarlet Plume? Hey guys....was sure hoping to have a response from someone regarding my post above.. I have read a few statements such as "Gabriel was a son-in-law to Scarlet Plume". Those of us who have been involved with genealogy through Gabriel know that he married three sisters, a Mary, Anna, and Sophia, Were they daughters of Scarlet Plume? Also, whenever I see these ladies listed there is usually the surname of "BROWN" listed with them. Why would that be? I have searched the net until my eyes are getting blurry and can find almost nothing about Scarlet Plume and his family. Can anyone help? (Honest...I'm not being a lazy butt...I have looked and looked everywhere imaginable!!!)
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Post by kingsleybray on Jun 13, 2017 16:29:31 GMT -5
hello natasha, I am not as conversant with Wahpeton and Sisseton genealogies as I am with Lakota. Gabriel Renville (1825-1892) was the son of Victor Renville and Winona Crawford, mixed blood Dakotas. Victor died in 1833, and Gabriel was then raised by his stepfather Joseph Akipa Renville, a full blood. Gabriel married three sisters in 1847, 1858, and 1860. He worked for the fur trader and Indian agent Joseph R. Brown, who was his brother-in-law. I'm not sure how that relationship worked exactly, but that is why the family name Brown recurs with Gabriel and his wives.
I have seen a reference to Scarlet Plume being the father-in-law of Gabriel Renville -- see Mark Diedrich (with Louis Garcia), Little Fish: Head Chief of the Dakota on the Fort Totten Reservation (Coyote Books, 2009), p. 28. Note that Louis posts on these boards. I presume the three sisters Gabriel married including Sophia were indeed daughters of Scarlet Plume. Scarlet Plume was a chief in the Upper Sisseton. Before the war of 1862 Scarlet Plume's village was on the southern shore of Big Stone Lake.
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Post by natasha on Jun 13, 2017 21:49:04 GMT -5
hello natasha, I am not as conversant with Wahpeton and Sisseton genealogies as I am with Lakota. Gabriel Renville (1825-1892) was the son of Victor Renville and Winona Crawford, mixed blood Dakotas. Victor died in 1833, and Gabriel was then raised by his stepfather Joseph Akipa Renville, a full blood. Gabriel married three sisters in 1847, 1858, and 1860. He worked for the fur trader and Indian agent Joseph R. Brown, who was his brother-in-law. I'm not sure how that relationship worked exactly, but that is why the family name Brown recurs with Gabriel and his wives. I have seen a reference to Scarlet Plume being the father-in-law of Gabriel Renville -- see Mark Diedrich (with Louis Garcia), Little Fish: Head Chief of the Dakota on the Fort Totten Reservation (Coyote Books, 2009), p. 28. Note that Louis posts on these boards. I presume the three sisters Gabriel married including Sophia were indeed daughters of Scarlet Plume. Scarlet Plume was a chief in the Upper Sisseton. Before the war of 1862 Scarlet Plume's village was on the southern shore of Big Stone Lake. Thank you so much for your response. I do have all the information about Gabriel and have the Renville line back to France. I kind of thought that the Brown surname might have something to do with the Brown I was seeing with Ann, Mary, and Sophia but wasn't sure how. Some of Winona Crawford's children also used the surname of Crawford throughout their lifetime since she chose to carry the Crawford name forward also. My husband grew up on the Sisseton-Wahpeton reservation in South Dakota. His mother was a member of the Spirit Lake tribe and she grew up and lived there until she passed away there. I have looked for any kind of Indian census at Lake Traverse that might have Scarlet Plume listed with his family but have not found anything. If anyone knows of any other type record that this information might be in I would really appreciate knowing about it. I did find through findagrave.com Scarlet Plume's information about where he is buried with a picture of the tombstone. The tombstone has the name: Israel (Scarlet Plume) Wamdipiduta, born 1804 and died Feb. 4, 1893; buried in the Buffalo Lake Cemetery, Eden, Marshall County, South Dakota. The plot is in the west cemetery and the Find A Grave Memorial # is 6198776. The information given on that page says that his life is further detailed in Curtis Dahlin's book "Stories and Final Resting Places", p. 17. Anyone have that book that might be able to send me the info on page 17?
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vicky
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by vicky on Jun 14, 2017 10:24:17 GMT -5
My first post here...hope I am doing this correctly and in the right category. My husband descends directly from Gabriel Renville and wife Sophia Hu Tecawin. I have been given conflicting information about Gabriel's three wives and was wondering if anybody knew for sure here. Were they the daughters of Scarlet Plume (Scarlet Eagle Plume)? Also...why the heck is there so very little information about Scarlet Plume? Hello Natasha. I can help with Scarlet Plume's documentation at Sisseton. You need to search by his name WAMDIUPIDUTA. He can be found on the following documents- 1875 Scarlet Plume (hereafter known as SP) received a SW land allotment, #123, p. 16 1887 SP received an allotment #306 at age 82 1887 SW census-SP is 80, married to Yuzikzicewin age 71, living at Buffalo Lake 1891 Elrod- SP age 68 (an obvious mistake), Yuzigzicewin, wife age 70 He is also mentioned in the book Ehanna Woyakapi I can't get the photo uploader to work, but I would be happy to send these items to your email if you would kindly email me at vicky_valenta@live.com
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vicky
New Member
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Post by vicky on Jun 14, 2017 10:35:18 GMT -5
My first post here...hope I am doing this correctly and in the right category. My husband descends directly from Gabriel Renville and wife Sophia Hu Tecawin. I have been given conflicting information about Gabriel's three wives and was wondering if anybody knew for sure here. Were they the daughters of Scarlet Plume (Scarlet Eagle Plume)? Also...why the heck is there so very little information about Scarlet Plume? Hello Natasha. I can help with Scarlet Plume's documentation at Sisseton. You need to search by his name WAMDIUPIDUTA. He can be found on the following documents- 1875 Scarlet Plume (hereafter known as SP) received a SW land allotment, #123, p. 16 1887 SP received an allotment #306 at age 82 1887 SW census-SP is 80, married to Yuzikzicewin age 71, living at Buffalo Lake 1891 Elrod- SP age 68 (an obvious mistake), Yuzigzicewin, wife age 70 He is also mentioned in the book Ehanna Woyakapi I can't get the photo uploader to work, but I would be happy to send these items to your email if you would kindly email me at vicky_valenta@live.com See if you can pull them off photobucket. s119.photobucket.com/user/vickyvalenta/library/Scarlet%20Plume?sort=3&page=1
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Post by natasha on Jun 14, 2017 10:51:24 GMT -5
I must be doing something wrong with photobucket because I can never get into it. Thank you so much, Vicky...I appreciate any information. I will look for all the references you gave me. So, are you of the opinion that Mary, Anna and Sophia who were Gabriel Renville's wives were daughters of Scarlet Plume? I will email you later this evening when I am home....and, in fact, I don't mind putting my email address here: natwick@comcast.net Do you recall ever seeing Israel as his given name as it is on his tombstone? Also, spelling of Wamdiupiduta on tombstone does not have the u after the first i. Probably an error.
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vicky
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by vicky on Jun 14, 2017 11:04:30 GMT -5
I must be doing something wrong with photobucket because I can never get into it. Thank you so much, Vicky...I appreciate any information. I will look for all the references you gave me. So, are you of the opinion that Mary, Anna and Sophia who were Gabriel Renville's wives were daughters of Scarlet Plume? I will email you later this evening when I am home....and, in fact, I don't mind putting my email address here: natwick@comcast.net Do you recall ever seeing Israel as his given name as it is on his tombstone? Also, spelling of Wamdiupiduta on tombstone does not have the u after the first i. Probably an error. I have no documentation for any of his children except for those listed in Max Renville's Indian Land Ownership Book, those being Tacandiwastewin and Mrs. Amos Brant. Does the direct link work? 1875 Land Allotments- i119.photobucket.com/albums/o134/vickyvalenta/Scarlet%20Plume/1875%20allotments_zpsydwsgxx8.jpg
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Post by natasha on Jun 14, 2017 12:41:41 GMT -5
Yes...it did....very faint, however. Thank you!
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vicky
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by vicky on Jun 14, 2017 17:49:33 GMT -5
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vicky
New Member
Posts: 25
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Post by vicky on Jun 15, 2017 6:45:27 GMT -5
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Post by natasha on Jun 15, 2017 9:44:41 GMT -5
Thank you so much, Vicky! I apologize for not emailing you last night but we were with my daughter until quite late...she has stage 4 cancer and putting up a valiant fight. Just to let all of you know, I live in Orem, Utah....30 minutes from Salt Lake City. So, you guys know what I have access to (The Family History Library) as well as 15 minutes from the 3rd largest college library at BYU. If anyone needs any look-ups of items determined to be at either of these libraries, just let me know via email at: natwick@comcast.net
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