|
Post by shatonska on Aug 25, 2009 15:06:55 GMT -5
jinlian i think it is him , resemblance is very high , age fits (from 45 to 50 in 1887 , hog died in 89 ) and i found no running hog anywhere, and these are chiefs , Hog was a young and fine man anyway
this photo is a bit of puzzle because it has been made from 1887 to 91 when Little wolf was in disgrace , probably as i said in the other post , little wolf away from the reservation (here he was visiting the cheyenne still living at Pine ridge) could act as a chief and the classical disgrace period lasted usually 4 years even if at home he mantained his exile status until his death
( a parte la mia frettolosita' intrinseca in italiano mi esprimerei meglio ;D )
|
|
|
Post by kingsleybray on Aug 25, 2009 15:27:52 GMT -5
The Little Wolf in this photo with Wild Hog and Standing Elk is the younger Little Wolf, nephew of the great chief. Born in ca. 1850 his mother was sister to Little Wolf's first wife. In youth he was known as Thorny Tree and Young Hawk, but after he counted his first coup against the Shoshones, his famous uncle gave him his own name.
Because he surrendered to Col. Miles at Tongue River he was not involved in the main N. Cheyenne removal from Red Cloud Agency to Indian Territory in 1877, but he was among the people taken there late in 1878 - i.e. too late to be involved in the flight homeward so gloriously led by his uncle. Instead he was among the Cheyennes relocated to Pine Ridge in 1881 - and hence the photo posted!
Kingsley
|
|
|
Post by shatonska on Aug 25, 2009 15:39:22 GMT -5
The Little Wolf in this photo with Wild Hog and Standing Elk is the younger Little Wolf, nephew of the great chief. Born in ca. 1850 his mother was sister to Little Wolf's first wife. In youth he was known as Thorny Tree and Young Hawk, but after he counted his first coup against the Shoshones, his famous uncle gave him his own name. Because he surrendered to Col. Miles at Tongue River he was not involved in the main N. Cheyenne removal from Red Cloud Agency to Indian Territory in 1877, but he was among the people taken there late in 1878 - i.e. too late to be involved in the flight homeward so gloriously led by his uncle. Instead he was among the Cheyennes relocated to Pine Ridge in 1881 - and hence the photo posted! Kingsley that makes more sense Laban Little wolf
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Aug 25, 2009 15:39:31 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by kingsleybray on Aug 25, 2009 15:40:52 GMT -5
Oops, I meant to complete the information - Young Little Wolf was baptised as Laban Little Wolf.
Kingsley
|
|
|
Post by jinlian on Aug 25, 2009 16:10:59 GMT -5
shatonska: non ti preoccupare, è perfetto (thunder da farwest.it, giusto?) Wild Hog was indeed a fine-looking man, in the Ricker book C.P. Johnson describes him as "...a great, big, powerful Indian, the most powerful and strongest Indian I have ever known. His muscles were like a white man's. (Describing Wild Hog's arrest before the outbreak) It took six or seven men to throw him in the building and they were strong men called in there for that purpose". Johnson described there another meeting with Wild Hog in 1883 and noted that "he was in bad repute with his people by having been in prison when all the band was killed". Don't know if the same contempt was showed to Old Crow, who was one of the forty-four council chiefs of the Cheyenne... Also, was wondering if Meddaugh, the author of the first photograph posted in this thread, also took pictures of the other Cheyenne put on trial after the Fort Robinson outbreak. Kingsley, do you have further information about Wild Hog's wives and was one of them an Oglala?
|
|
|
Post by shatonska on Aug 25, 2009 16:21:02 GMT -5
shatonska: non ti preoccupare, è perfetto (thunder da farwest.it, giusto?) Kingsley, do you have further information about Wild Hog's wives and was one of them an Oglala? si (thunder has nothing to do with indians but with thunder road) in the 1891 census there is only a reference to hog's son , bird , and maybe wrong (he is said to be 2 years old while your link .. www.spanggenealogy.com/nc/gtp1795.htm#head0 ) , but two of the 4 files seem corrupted www.cheyenneancestors.com/cheysourc.html
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Aug 25, 2009 16:31:33 GMT -5
Here´s a close up from the 1879 prisoner photograph:
|
|
|
Post by kingsleybray on Aug 25, 2009 16:34:14 GMT -5
On Wild Hog's Lakota wife, I only have the information from Mari Sandoz in CHEYENNE AUTUMN. However if you check page 4 of the Jack Red Cloud thread here you'll see that one of Wild Hog's daughters married Jack Red Cloud at the time of the Cheyenne incarceration at Ft Robinson.
Kingsley
|
|
|
Post by jinlian on Aug 25, 2009 16:41:22 GMT -5
Yes, Sandoz also stated that Hog's wife was American Horse's sister but I haven't found other sources corroborating it. In that same book Sandoz speaks of AH's as "son in law of Red Cloud". If Sandoz is correct, Jack Red Cloud then married his brother-in-law (American Horse, married to one of his sisters)'s niece, unless Wild Hog had another wife.
|
|
|
Post by jinlian on Aug 25, 2009 17:36:38 GMT -5
This should be Bird Wild Hog, Wild Hog's son. Again , I don't know about the photographer and possible copyright holders, hence the watermark:
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Aug 26, 2009 8:27:44 GMT -5
Bird Wild Hog was photographed by Bavarian/American photographer Christian Barthelmess. I haven´t found a date, even in the Frink/Barthelmess biography, but I would guess late 1880s or early 1890s.
|
|
|
Post by jinlian on Aug 26, 2009 9:35:35 GMT -5
Thanks, Dietmar. The Wild Hog close-up is amazing, how did you manage to do it?
|
|
|
Post by Dietmar on Aug 26, 2009 14:03:23 GMT -5
I learned from Naiches ;D
Actually I have found a good version of the group photo last week...
|
|
|
Post by 1prettywoman on Mar 19, 2011 23:23:00 GMT -5
My Husband is a direct descendant of Chief Little Wolf and Wild Hog. Wild Hog married Lydia Little Wolf
|
|