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Post by grahamew on Sept 5, 2010 12:15:46 GMT -5
Taken from Heritage Auctions, where I know the quest for truth isn't always paramount. Make of it what you will. Which one Horace Jones is (or meant to be), I have no idea, and there was no suggestion that Mowway is actually pictured. For what it's worth, here's the info from the Heritage site: "HORACE P. JONES AT MOW-WAYS AND PARRA-O-COOM COMANCHE CAMP, 1873. Well-known scout and interpreter Horace Pope Jones is seen here at the Cache Creek, Oklahoma camp of aggressive Comanche leaders Parra-o-Coom (Quahadi band) and Mow-Ways (Kotsoteka band). The photographer of this large cabinet card is unknown. Joining Jones on horseback are the Evans brothers, local ranchers. In the foreground, a group of Indian children pose together; in the background and far distance are many teepees, revealing how very large this combined camp was. During the winter of 1872-73, Parra-o-coom camped near the Wichita Agency at Fort Sill, and this was probably the only peaceful contact he ever had with the white man. The following year, he resumed his violent raids on white settlers. Image measures approximately 7.5" x 4.75" and is affixed to a slightly larger mount. Photo shows minor paper loss at lower left and upper right corners; moderate damage to sections of mount edge/corners. Despite the damage, this is an important and desirable piece worthy of any Western Americana collection. " www.ha.com/common/search_results.php?Ntk=SI_Titles&Ntt=horace%20p.%20jones&Nty=1&N=0+793+794+791+792&chkNotSold=0&Ns=
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Post by charlie on Sept 8, 2010 9:59:15 GMT -5
In the book "Plains Indian Raiders" the author Wilbur S. Nye, about the photo posted by Dietmar for me, labelled the indian second from left "...the famous chief PARRA-O-COOM. To me, his face appear more round and fat than the face of Horseback's son. What a pity we don't have a best resolution of this image for make a comparison more detailed. The first part of the name KOBAY-O-BURRA derived from Comanche word "kobe" meaning "mustang". The second part I don't know.
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Post by charlie on Sept 8, 2010 10:08:17 GMT -5
About WILD HORSE, I have found the date of death: 15 July 1891 and of born: about 1840. Before his death, he gifted his horse and his goods to Quanah Parker, one of his best friend.
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Post by Dietmar on Sept 14, 2010 8:45:31 GMT -5
I forgot to thank naiches and Grahame for posting those high resolution scans: Thank you! From the photos I have seen so far I am convinced that it´s Horseback´s son in the group photos by Soule. In Russel Belous/Robert Weinstein´s "Will Soule - Indian Photographer at Fort Sill" (1969) his name is given as "Too-hot-ko", unfortunately without an English translation. Horseback´s son by William S. Soule According to Belous/Weinstein he was "an older son of Horseback who was killed in Texas by the Rangers". Btw, in the same book Horseback is said to have these names: Tuh-hu-yet, Nau-qua-hip, Champion Rider. So... Champion Rider was his second name?
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Post by tkavanagh on Sept 14, 2010 10:29:57 GMT -5
The name and translation "Tuh-hu-yet, Nau-qua-hip, Champion Rider" apparently comes from a truly awful book, _Comanche Land_ by J Emmor Harston. The comma between the terms is unnecessary and ungrammatical.
Terheryah is 'deer' in most Shoshonean languages; in Comanche it came to be 'horse' [the term puku (as in tuepukunuu 'Little Pony group' is 'horse,' as in 'pet']). kwahip is 'back'. I don't know what the 'nau' is supposed to be.
The translation "Champion Rider" does not appear anywhere in the historical record as a translation for 'Horse Back.'
BTW, this is a pseudo-stereo, as Soule did not himself make any.
tk
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Post by comanche79 on Feb 2, 2011 12:42:44 GMT -5
Hello, I just happened upon this site while trying to find a photo of my family member. Terheryakwhip aka Keithtahroco aka Horseback the chief of the Comanches just prior to Quannah Parker. It is said in my family that Quannah was selected by the white men to be chief because Horseback would not yield. From what I heard Quannah waited until the death of Horseback before he took the title of Chief. My father grew up with the Parkers and the story varies. We still carry our name today. It has been passed down to my brother. I am always interested in reading as much as I can about Horseback. I would appreciate it if there is anyone who could lead me in the direction of more information. Thanks, Comanche79
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Post by naiches2 on Feb 2, 2011 14:41:43 GMT -5
Hello, I just happened upon this site while trying to find a photo of my family member. Terheryakwhip aka Keithtahroco aka Horseback the chief of the Comanches just prior to Quannah Parker. It is said in my family that Quannah was selected by the white men to be chief because Horseback would not yield. From what I heard Quannah waited until the death of Horseback before he took the title of Chief. My father grew up with the Parkers and the story varies. We still carry our name today. It has been passed down to my brother. I am always interested in reading as much as I can about Horseback. I would appreciate it if there is anyone who could lead me in the direction of more information. Thanks, Comanche79 This is portrait of Horse Back (Tir-ha-yah-gua-hip), Noconi Comanche Head Chief, by W.S. Soule, Fort Sill, I.T., 1868 Attachments:
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Post by naiches2 on Feb 2, 2011 14:45:45 GMT -5
Horseback's son Nokoney by Soule, 1868 Attachments:
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Post by naiches2 on Feb 2, 2011 14:55:48 GMT -5
Mow-way by Soule, 1868 Attachments:
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Post by tkavanagh on Feb 2, 2011 16:56:50 GMT -5
Horseback's son Nokoney by Soule, 1868 Note: the “Nokoney” here should not be read as HB’s son’s name; rather it is their divisional ethnonym, i.e. Nokoni. Soule’s images, particularly the CDVs, were issued and re-issued in a number of formats, with variant titles, in various handwritings, on different card stocks, some probably by Soule himself, as well as by others (e.g., the above pseudo-stereos). The result is that the various titles on all the Soule images are problematic. There are two Soule images labeled some variant of “HB’s son”, at least one of which is sometimes referred to as “Johnny Horseback.” That name does not appear in any other context. It is also unlikely that either of the two “HB’s sons” was Keithtahroco; he is listed on the 1885 census (the earliest to list others than simply the ‘head of family’) as being 11 years old, e.g. born in 1874; he died in 1919. IIRC, there is pic of him in _Comanches in the New West_ ps: is ‘keithtahroco’ an attempt to spell /ke tah r[t]eka/, something like ‘Does Not Eat’? [and remember, Comanche personal names usually referred to a deed of the namer, not of the name-holder.] tk
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Post by naiches2 on Feb 20, 2011 14:41:49 GMT -5
Another Soule's photo Attachments:
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Post by tkavanagh on Feb 20, 2011 16:29:10 GMT -5
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Post by koochina on Mar 6, 2011 14:53:57 GMT -5
Tom/Dr Tom: can you drop me an email sometime please, have some KCA things I'd like to discuss. Thanks! mstokely@iun.edu
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Post by koochina on Mar 6, 2011 14:57:48 GMT -5
oops, apologies to the board for needing to use it to send a message to Tom...am working with some Comanche images that need more work, but you can see the beginnings of the project at kcacards.blogspot.com/
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Post by quanah on Nov 1, 2011 7:34:11 GMT -5
Mr Kavanagh,have you any information about your new book?
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