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Post by jinlian on Jun 23, 2011 13:32:08 GMT -5
Hi Carlo, My take on this is that, as Curley was a Mountain Crow (see the White Man Runs Him 1919 interview by General H.L. Scott), White Swan, as his "brother" (which, in Crow kinship terms, would mean also a maternal cousin, maternal uncle or even a maternal grandmother's brother) was a Mountain Crow too.
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Post by nicolas (carlo) on Jun 26, 2011 17:04:38 GMT -5
Hi Jinlian,
The reason I wanted to double check on the band affiliation is that the key Crow clans (in White Swan's case the Ashkápkawiia or Bad War Deeds, as identified earlier by you) existed in all three Crow bands. However, as you state, given the close family relationship with Curley I agree it does make sense to list White Swan among the Mountain Crows.
On the second question in your OP: the warrior society White Swan belonged to was the Lumpwood Society.
This is confirmed in the Denver Art Museum publication "Circles of the World" which has a painted muslin by White Swan depicting some of his war deeds (including the LBH). In the comment it says that "his upstanding hairdress and waist-length green shirt [...] indicate his membership in the Lumpwood Society." White Swan is shown with a large upstanding red feather-like ornament on the back of his head.
Carlo
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Post by captfox on Jul 5, 2011 22:04:25 GMT -5
Salamat, I am a new member. While browsing an old edition of American Indian Art magazine, I found a wonderful article on Crow warrior White Swan, his art, and participation in the Little Big Horn battle. As an historian, I'm gathering data to incorporate in an historical newsletter. I've enjoyed reading the entire 5 pages on White Swan and look forward to expanding my data search.
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Post by rodthomas on Aug 17, 2011 11:29:19 GMT -5
captfox, welcome. I am writing a biography of White Swan and you may contact me directly if you wish additional help with your article. The Bradley article is somewhat outdated but is a great place to start. My chapter on White Swan in my book, Rubbing Out Long Hair, deals with the Little Big Horn vignettes only.
The muslin painting in the Denver Art Museum contains six vignettes ALL of which occured at the Little Big Horn. Only one other painting, the one I found at the University of Arkansas Library, deals with only the Little Big Horn events. The Arkansas painting had been mis-attributed for a century to a Lakota warrior. As I noted in my book, it took about two years of work with the University to correctly identify White Swan as the artist.
You, and anyone else interested, may contact me directly at roddotthomasatsusneydotcom.
Again welcome and best wishes for your article...Rod...
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gabby
New Member
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Post by gabby on Jun 17, 2013 3:57:08 GMT -5
"White Swan died on August 12 1904. Even if some texts say that he's buried in the LBH battlefield area, there's no mark or grave there. More probably, he was buried in a traditional scaffold. As far as I know, he hasn't any direct descendant, unless one believes the story told to Joe Medicine Crow by a "white boy" in 1933 or so (H. Viola Little Bighorn Remembered: The Untold Indian Story of Custer's Last Stand) according to whom White Swan had a son from a clandestine relationship with a white nurse in a St. Louis hospital while recovering from the wounds received while fighting at LBH with Reno's troops. By the way, while some sources report White Swan being tended in a military hospital, I haven't found any reference about this particular hospital being in St. Louis. " The "white boy" talked about here is most likely my father. According my family history White Swan and my great grand mother who was a nurse had an affair when he was in the hospital after LBH. From what I've been told their relationship lasted much longer than just during the period when White Swan was in the hospital.
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gabby
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Post by gabby on Jun 17, 2013 4:09:43 GMT -5
"As far as I know, he hasn't any direct descendant, unless one believes the story told to Joe Medicine Crow by a "white boy" in 1933 or so (H. Viola Little Bighorn Remembered: The Untold Indian Story of Custer's Last Stand) according to whom White Swan had a son from a clandestine relationship with a white nurse in a St. Louis hospital while recovering from the wounds received while fighting at LBH with Reno's troops. By the way, while some sources report White Swan being tended in a military hospital, I haven't found any reference about this particular hospital being in St. Louis. "
The "white boy" mentioned here most likely my father. This is what my grand father, my father and all of my siblings have been told... the White Swan had a relationship with our great grandmother when she was working as a nurse. She worked in the hospital where White swan was sent after LBH. Their relationship lasted much longer than the period he was in the hospital. They had child who was my grandfather.
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Post by rodthomas on May 10, 2014 11:55:58 GMT -5
Good morning everyone and hope all is well. After a far too long period of time I am now "full time" on completing the White Swan biography. Final research trips to Cody and Crow Agency this coming fall will hopefully help tie up some loose ends. The Dyck White Swan painting is now on public display and can be used in the biography. Given the "use fees" we should have all his known artwork, almost thirty photographs, as well all the portraits/drawings/sketches I've been able to locate. Bill Holm, Forrest Fenn, Bud Lake, and others have been incredibly sharing of their resources and knowledge. Those "loose ends" include historically situating the "attacking a US soldier" vignette, who painted the "pursuing two enemies" vignette on the Dyck muslin, and the progeny stories. "Conclusively" I hope. The provenances of some of the artwork are in some cases stories themselves.
For starters, White Swan was disembarked from the Far West before it started to Fort Abraham Lincoln with the wounded soldiers. Several witnesses and ship logs attest to this. He did not go to any hospital in 1876. In fact, he was discharged in September 1876 from the Seventh Infantry and re-enlisted in November 1876 as a scout for the Second Infantry! All the while in Montana.
More to follow and please enjoy a grand day!
Regards, Rod Thomas...
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Post by nicolas (carlo) on May 10, 2014 13:55:30 GMT -5
That's great news Rod! I was wondering whether you were still working on this, good to hear it's on track and nearing completion. I for one will be eagerly looking forward to learn what you have uncovered about this very interesting individual. Carlo
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Post by dT on Aug 7, 2014 12:59:35 GMT -5
thanks to Jinlian and wolfgang911. your comments on Crow Scouts during the Nez Perce war were very interesting. I will check to see if the Crow historian (Elias Goes Ahead) is still alive ... the history of stories from that time is irreplaceable. :-)
Pete (dT)
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Post by rodthomas on May 19, 2015 12:17:42 GMT -5
Good morning all...Carolyn Reynolds Reibeth in her book J. H. Sharp Among the Crow Indians 1902-1910 included a photograph ostensibly by Sharp of a painted tipi cover on page 125. "Custer battle depicted on the tepee of White Swan, a Crow warrior" reads the caption. In the attached file it is shown and then two more images of the same tipi cover (one by an unknown photographer and one by McClintock) for comparison. It is NOT White Swan's tipi. Instead, it is Running Rabbit's, a Blackfoot. Sharp may very well have taken the photo in Riebeth's book as he visited the Blackfeet as much as he did the Crows. This is one of many examples of incorrectly attributed stories and artifacts to people such as White Swan. Riebeth's family did know White Swan and her father gave a White Swan painting away to a person who expressed interest. Still though, we now know the real story of the painted tipi used in her book. And yes, we think we have "figured out" which painting was given away by then Major Reynolds. The manuscript is coming along even as we finalize some research issues - one of which was the tipi described above - along with getting all the art and photo permissions. This has turned out to be quite a story. Everyone enjoy a grand day! Regards, Rod... PS...now I hope I've learned how to "do" attachments!
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Post by rodthomas on Jul 7, 2015 18:58:25 GMT -5
Sometime in White Swan's warrior "active duty" life, he attacked a US soldier. We argued in Rubbing Out Long Hair against it being an event at the Little Big Horn fight in 1876. He is dressed differently and carries a bundle - leader, horse, arrow - and shows himself mounted on a different horse than the Little Big Horn. I don't know of anyone who has argued against this conclusion. That leaves us with the "five W's" and not much to go on. I've researched US Army casualty lists, engagement histories, unit muster reports, Crow histories (oral and written), and have yet to pinpoint this engagement. Last night, while reading up on another subject, I soon found myself standing in front of my library and pulling down references about the Bozeman Trail/Powder River history (aka "Red Cloud's War"). I've spent most of today reading over as much as I have on this time. Most histories of the Crow - US relationship point out the positive alliance crafted by the folks of the time. Imagine to my surprise when a "re-read" of those times points out some very definitive Crow demands and goals missed or not appropriately recognized the first time around. So then I started looking more closely at unit reports, musters, and accounts from both sides. Despite repeated and popularly accepted "norms" that the Crow people have never "waged war" against the United States, it is very clear from those records Crow warriors did combat not only civilians (especially miners) but US soldiers as well. As late as 1868, Crow leadership demanded that the Army leave the Powder River region. White Swan was born in 1850 or 1851 as backdated from his enlistments and pension files. He would have been 16 to 17 years old in 1866-1868. James Dempsey's point about most Blackfoot warriors "were young teenagers in their first forays" comes immediately to mind. More importantly, Two Leggings, Plenty Coups, and others relate the same age group for entering combat. The question is: Would a young Crow warrior of this age cohort be adorned with a bundle? Secondarily, but just as importantly, where else may I look for help in identifying this vignette? Thanks everyone...and hope all is well! Regards, Rod... Attachments:
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Post by nicolas (carlo) on Jul 8, 2015 17:58:33 GMT -5
Rod,
Red Cloud's War was indeed a confusing time for the Crows. They were in essence loyal to the US, but actually shared the Lakota-Cheyenne alliance's wish that the soldiers abandon the Bozeman Trail forts, in order to gain back valuable hunting grounds (contested with those same Lakotas.) The shared objective of the abandonment of the Bozeman Trail did not ensure any lasting peace between the Crow and Lakotas (raiding continued between the tribes), but during Red Cloud's War individual Crow warriors have helped out the Lakotas on occasion, and there is primary evidence that three Crow warriors and one Crow woman were fighting alongside the Lakotas and Cheyennes in the Fetterman Fight. It's tantalizing to speculate that White Swan was one of the three! He is, after all, wearing a wool capote, indicating it was sometime in or near winter... But I doubt that White Swan would be a war leader at that age.
Btw, the soldier is clearly a cavalry trooper, as evidenced by his yellow striped pants and his spurs. He is an NCO, probably a Corporal. Some of the forum members who are more knowledgeable about weaponry might help in identifying what type of pistol and rifle/carbine he is carrying to establish a date frame.
Hope this helps,
Carlo
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Post by hconroy on Jul 8, 2015 21:45:08 GMT -5
Rod and Carlo, Since I read the post on White Swan striking a soldier I have been searching for the evidence that I have read about Crows fighting alongside the Sioux and Cheyenne at the Fetterman Battle. I know that I came across the story several years ago but did not note the source. Could you please refresh my memory? As to the firearms, to me the rifle most closely resembles a Spencer, which was widely used by the military at the time of Red Cloud's war. Hard to tell exactly which pistol is being portrayed. As I understand it, the battle strung out along the ridge was largely fought on foot against the infantry. The cavalry along with Wheatley and Fisher was much further down. To me the image, if indeed it is against Fetterman, shows that at least one Crow was near where the decoys sprung the trap and where there was more likely to have been a horseback encounter. This puts the story in a very interesting light!
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Post by rodthomas on Jul 9, 2015 12:37:17 GMT -5
Folks, thanks...first thing - source of Crows present at the Fetterman fight see "What Half Yellow Face Knows" in the Bradley Papers at the Montana Historical Society. Second source is narrative by Spotted Blue Body, Miniconjou said there were four Crows present in testimony May 9, 1867, at Fort Laramie at investigation into the fight - Roll 1, microform M740, Record Group 75, Records of the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Half Yellow Face said there were three men and one woman.
Circumstantial indications, as well tracts about Crow society, cause me to "feel" a relationship of long standing between Half Yellow Face and White Swan - mentor-pupil sort of bond. Records - written and oral - are silent as to Half Yellow Face being one of the four but his story is verified by Lakota narrative. It would be a stretch perhaps to place both he and White Swan in that fight. Or would it? Pure, unadulterated speculation at this point in time and until the silence is broken will probably remain as such. However, we still have the vignette.
Weapons - that makes two of us (hconroy and I) looking at the soldier's sidearm as a Spencer carbine, model 1865. However, the soldier is shown also carrying a shoulder weapon on a sling (ala the Springfield carbine). The Spencer fits the immediate post-Civil War period. Later I'll post some images of the Spencer.
I'll have to find the source but I've mostly considered portrayals of wearing capotes on raids as just that - a sign it was a horse raid or war not cold weather.
My initial thinking and research focused on the Crows engagements with the Montana Militia and have yet to finish up details of those.
Several folks have spent lots of time trying to locate this vignette during or after 1876. To find more solid indications of it being in the mid-1860s is encouraging and a bit breathtaking.
THanks for help and we'll continue down this trail!
Regards, Rod...
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Post by hconroy on Jul 9, 2015 16:12:55 GMT -5
rodthomas, I believe every native depiction of the Custer fight that I can remember shows the soldiers wearing not boots but shoes and long pants. I do know that it was customary for cavalry of the Civil War to wear boots. I do not know when the uniform standard was changed or all of the specifics but it seems that this soldier is dressed quite differently than enlisted men or non-commissioned officers depicted in other vignettes. As you say, circumstantial, but certainly enough to give rise to further investigation! I recall reading that units of the 7th turned in their Spencers and/or Sharps carbines before they were issued the Springfield 1873 models. I feel that perhaps the sling in the picture is for the rifle in the foreground. Thanks very much for the sources of information on the Crows at the Fetterman battle.
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