Have to admit, if I'd seen the 'Black Bull' group photo without context, I'd have assumed it dated from the late 80s or from the 90s. How old would Yates or Deadwood Charlie be if this was from, say, 1888-98? I might have also assumed the group had some kind of Wild West Show connection, although, I suppose, not necessarily Cody's.
Here's another photo of Feather on his Head, taken in Iowa in 1891:
Is this a heavier version of the man in the photo Dietmar posted? If so, we could maybe take five years off him and say the other photo was taken around 85... That's if the 91 date is correct, of course... Interesting if it is, because that's the man Papandrea thinks is Black Bull.
Perhaps this whole thread could be transferred to the Sicangu section?
Last Edit: Mar 11, 2009 14:10:57 GMT -5 by grahamew
It's interesting to read in Papandrea that Black Bull participated in the Rebellion at Batoche and was badly wounded; in the Campbell narrative, he mentions that "the old man" (Black Bull) was able to tell him in signs about the battle but not that he was wounded - something he surely should've commented on, bearing in mind their meeting was in July, only a couple of months after the fighting.
Post by Diane Merkel on Mar 13, 2009 10:32:02 GMT -5
I noted on Ron Papandrea's "wall" in Facebook that his book was mentioned here. Here's his response:
There was more than one Black Bull. The Black Bull I write about was a Brule Lakota. He died in Canada. According to a reliable Canadian source he was wounded at both the Little Big Horn and the Battle of Batoche in Canada. His leg was hurt at the LBH and he was also known as Lame Brule. He is also mentioned by the scout Allison who was married to a Brule woman. In the final version of my book I give more information for the 1875-1876 photograph of Black Bull published with the caption "A Group of Sioux Chiefs".
The role of the Sioux in the rebellion - in fact, the role of Indians in the Rebellion - has been seriously exaggerated, One San Francisco newspaper (http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=TAN18850509.2.34&l=mi&e=-------10--1----0-all) referred to the "Teton Sioux Indians [who have] swarmed across the American border, making serious trouble."
The New York Times, 6 April, 1885(http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9A02E5D81030E433A25755C0A9629C94649FD7CF) reported:
But later in the same story gave perhaps more realistic view:
It's clear some Lakota and Dakota took part. White Cap was more or less press-ganged, but some of his warriors may have been more enthusiastic; Black Bull and some Lakota were also involved. Afterwards, Assistant Commissioner Hayter Reed drew up a list of recommendations following the Rebellion, one of which was that leaders of the Teton Sioux who fought against the troops should be hanged and the rest be sent out of the country, yet a couple of months after Batoche, Black Bull is socialising with Canadian troops! Grant McEwan, in Sitting Bull: The Years in Canada (1973), wrote of Wounded Horse, a 76-year old living at Wood Mountain, whose grandfather of the same name fought for Riel in 1885, and of Pete Lethbridge, a Sioux in his early 70s recalling that his grandfather, Red Bear, fought for the Metis and was imprisoned in Regina where he died. Of course, most of the actions that did take place were aimed at breaking the influence of the Cree, many of whom had little truck with Riel, but who were standing up for their treaty rights.
Last Edit: Mar 15, 2009 9:31:37 GMT -5 by grahamew
apa. In Heski´s “Little Shadow Catcher” the following is said about this Black Bull:
“Black Bull known as a wag and a wit, carried a bundle of papers from various white men stating that he was a chief and deserved special consideration. He told the commission that if they wanted to buy Indian land, the Indians were willing to sell it at a fair price. He suggested that they bring in a big scale. The Indians would weigh the earth and sell it by the pound.” (page 104)
This posts learns us about 2 interesting black bulls!
One change to my last post: Pete Lethbridge stated that one of his grandfathers, Red Bear, was killed in battle. "He was shot in the leg and died of the wound. Another grandfather was captured and died in prison."
From James Howard's The Canadian Sioux (1984)
Last Edit: Mar 16, 2009 13:20:04 GMT -5 by grahamew
Black Bull is mentioned as one of the Lakota leaders James Walsh worked with to dissuade Sitting Bull from crossing the border and attacking Miles in 1879. In Walsh's letter to Cora Walsh, he refers to 'securing the influence of Broad Tail, Stone Dog, Little Bull (Oglalas), Spotted Eagle (Sans Arcs), Spotted Elk (Mineconjou), Short Neck and Black Bull (Uncpapas).'
Assuming this is the man who remained in Canada, I wonder if he was married into the Hunkpapa. I don't suppose he could be a relative of the Black Bull photographed by Gardner in 1872?
Was this the Black Bull among the 24 Brule families transferred from Standing Rock to Rosebud in 1882?
The first Black Bull is the Hunkpapa. The second is probably Feather(s) on the Head. The third is the Brule. The fourth may be the same Brule. The one who stayed in Canada - and died there - is a different man to all of the above.
Post by ronpapandrea on Aug 5, 2012 20:07:50 GMT -5
The photograph of the Black Bull family is the one in the Denver Library. The version of the photograph published in two books published in 1891 have different captioning: Frank Yates becomes Frank Gates. Lone Bull becomes Black Bull Bear. Charles B. Gordon has a nickname added (Deadwood Charlie). Mrs. Feather On-his-head becomes Mrs. Black Bull Bear. Which version is more correct? The 1891 book version is copied in a family history "The Mack and Sine Families". Rev. Mack was posted in Moose Jaw in 1892. This family history is located in the Moose Jaw Library and in the main Detroit Library (Burton Collection). If Frank Yates is really Frank Gates, it throws my dating of the photograph (1875-1876) in question. I have assumed that the Denver Library version is more correct. If the only woman in the photograph is Mrs. Black Bull, the indians standing near her have to be her husband and son. The husband is shown wearing a badge. The grave stone of Mrs. Black Bull in Moose Jaw has a badge carved around the inscription.
Notes for Black Bull-Crazy Horse Surrender Ledger #1 Black Bull pg 30 1-1-1-1 Oglala pg 130 beef record 4 in family pg 139 ration tickets 4 in family
#2 Black Bull pg 72 2-2-2-1 Whazahzahs Red Leaf with him Deaf 7 in lodge pg122 Beef record Black Bull 7 in family- with him-Pretty Rump 6 in family-Iron Joint 8 in family-Porcupine 7 in family-Red Fly 2 in family pg 153 1-1-2-2 transferred to Spotted Tail Apr 21st 1877
#3 Black Bull Crazy Horse Surrender Ledger pg 37 3-3-1-2 Loafer band LaDeane
Post by ronpapandrea on Aug 9, 2012 18:48:21 GMT -5
I no longer think the "Canadian" Black Bull Fought with the Metis in 1885. My main reason for changing my mind are two photographs showing Black Bull posing with Canadian soldiers at Moose Jaw within 8 weeks of Batoche. The photographs are in "1885 Experiences of the Halifax Battalion in the North-West" by Robert A. Sherlock.