clw
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Posts: 123
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Post by clw on Jun 5, 2008 17:08:23 GMT -5
Deitmar, maybe we need a section for artifacts. Especially if HinTamaheca should join us over here. I didn't know where to put this, but because I think it's Iroquois, I stuck it here. I found this bag (sporran?) in my parents things after they died. I suspect it's an Oneida piece, but that is only because of family history. The background is black velvet. Does anyone have any information they can offer?
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Post by Dietmar on Jun 5, 2008 17:24:16 GMT -5
I like your idea, clw. Just give me a little time to think about how to arrange it. An artifact board would not fit in the categories we have already. I also think about a board especially for wintercounts.
later
Dietmar
P.S.: I´m afraid I can´t help you with the bag.
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Post by Dietmar on Jun 7, 2008 7:13:47 GMT -5
Hi clw,
I moved your post into this new category. Hope you like it.
Best wishes Dietmar
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Henri
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Post by Henri on Jun 7, 2008 10:44:12 GMT -5
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jun 7, 2008 14:02:24 GMT -5
Henri, that's a good reference to have although I don't think clw's beadwork belongs in that group.
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clw
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Posts: 123
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Post by clw on Jun 7, 2008 19:08:43 GMT -5
Well Henri, it may well be some kind of reproduction. But I know it's at least as old as I am, which means it was made sometime before the 1950's. The only thing I've been told is the beads themselves indidate age because if you look closely, no two beads are exactly the same color. Also, the colors themselves are old style colors. It was Hin Tamaheca that told me that and it makes sense to me. Wish Antiques Roadshow would come to town.
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clw
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Posts: 123
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Post by clw on Jun 8, 2008 9:14:04 GMT -5
www.joannerusso.com/made_of_thunder.htmI think I've found a resource that will help sort out my mystery. The bags in this exhibit fit the motifs and construction of mine. But joy of joys -- there's a book! That I can afford!! Diane and Deitmar ~ This new section is perfect.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jun 9, 2008 0:08:15 GMT -5
Wonderful! I wish I could see the exhibit, but the book will have to do. Maybe crzhrs can make it since it just opened in New Hampshire.
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clw
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Posts: 123
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Post by clw on Jun 9, 2008 9:21:30 GMT -5
One of life's little pleasures.... I ordered the book last night. JoAnne Russo, the artist who owns the website, answered the phone herself and we had a lovely chat. If you talk to her Diane, tell her about our forum. I got so interested in the conversation, I forgot.
Horse ~ Hope you're lucky enough to see that exhibit. Please take pictures if they'll let you.
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clw
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Posts: 123
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Post by clw on Jun 16, 2008 17:18:39 GMT -5
I received my book today and it's an excellent history of this artform. There is an informative article dating the various motifs and discussing the early tourist trade in 19th century New York State. Several period newspaper articles are included and numerous photographs of the the People. There are around 150 photos of these bags and other similar items such as hats, card cases, reticules, etc.
As a point of reference, my guess after reading it through is that my bag dates from around 1830-1840. Isn't it interesting that while the plains tribes were living much as they always had, the women of these eastern tribes were making souvenirs for the antebellum ladies?
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clw
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Post by clw on Jun 17, 2008 15:40:25 GMT -5
At the risk of turning this into a one woman thread, I'd like to tell you all the final installment. With no expectations, I wrote to the author and sent him the pictures above. Imagine my excitment when he wrote back and told me who he thought had made the bag! Thanks for sending the image of your bag. It’s a lovely example and you’re right that it’s similar to those illustrated in figure 22. It’s so difficult attributing these to a specific tribe or time period because so little in the way of documentation exist for these. Fortunately, I know a little bit about the style of your bag as I’ve seen others that are similar and the example below is dated. The floral style is very similar to the work of Caroline Parker, a Christianized Seneca from the Tonawanda Reservation in western New York who married a Tuscarora chief by the name of John Mountpleasant and afterwards moved to the Tuscarora Reservation where she died around 1890. Other examples of her work are illustrated in the New York State Regents Reports for the year 1850 and she used that style of flower repeatedly. I can’t say for sure that she made the bag below or your example as beaders often worked in family groups consisting of mothers, grandmothers, aunts and nieces, etc. Also, your bag may originally have had a silk ribbon edge binding that was decorated with beads along the edge, in a fashion similar to the one below as most of the examples I’ve seen were done that way.
Thanks again for sending the image and I’m glad to hear you found the catalog informative.
All the best,
Gerry Biron
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jun 17, 2008 18:13:06 GMT -5
Wow! That makes it all the more dear, doesn't it?
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clw
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Post by clw on Jun 17, 2008 19:50:18 GMT -5
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clw
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Posts: 123
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Post by clw on Jun 17, 2008 20:10:49 GMT -5
And from the Smithsonian...
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jun 17, 2008 20:30:11 GMT -5
When I first looked at the photo of the inside of your bag, I thought it said 1866. It's 1846, isn't it? You've got an original. Everything fits -- the quality of the work, the year, Niagara Falls -- got to be! Congratulations!
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