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Post by ouroboros on Oct 12, 2021 2:41:19 GMT -5
In the first half of the nineteenth century the warfare between Comanches and Mescaleros was mainly limited to raids on camps by both peoples, and also small ambushes conducted by the Mescalero on Comanche raiders returning from Mexico. The one major battle was the Apache victory against a large Comanche war-party
There is a fine comment by Harry W. Baseheart, Mescalero Apache subsistence patterns and socio-political organization, p. 165:
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Post by ouroboros on Oct 14, 2021 2:13:30 GMT -5
Sometimes the Apaches joined the Mexicans to contain Comanche raiders. In 1841 the noted Mescalero Chief Santa Anna (or Santana alias Santa Ana) informed the commander of San Carlos of an approaching Comanche raid. As Ralph Smith, Indians in American-Mexican Relations Before the War of 1846, p. 50, writes:
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Post by ouroboros on Nov 8, 2021 3:34:48 GMT -5
Conflicts between these two tribes resulted in many deaths on both sides – some important Comanche chiefs died in fight against the Apaches: Bajo el Sol died fighting the Mescaleros, and Yellow Wolf was killed by the Lipans in 1854. In the Lipan-Comanche war also another two important chiefs perished - in 1786 the Comanche chief known as Cabeza Rapada ("Shaved Head") - probably a Kotsoteka ("Buffalo eaters") leader - led of war-party of fifty Braves, searching of Apaches. They found a hunting camp of three hundred people of the Lipan, Mescalero and Lipiyan Apaches. They did not suprise the Apache camp and were surrounded by the enemy. Cabeza Rapada and twenty of his men died on the battlefield, the Apache lost nine warriors, see Sherry Robinson, I Fought a Good Fight: A History of the Lipan Apaches, p. 127.
On the Apache side: In 1801 (the date is not certain, but S. Robinson argues for it) the famous and warlike leader of the Lipiyanes Apache Picax-ande-yns-tinsle ("Strong arm") was killed in a battle against the Comanches, very likely of a Spanish bullet.
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Post by ouroboros on May 8, 2022 4:30:09 GMT -5
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Post by ouroboros on Jun 6, 2022 2:55:40 GMT -5
Another chapter of the warfare between the Nde and the Comanches is the war between an Indian alliance with Spaniards directed agains the Chiricahuas, mainly Chihenne and Chokonen bands. There are some fine observations made by Matthew Babcock, Apache Adaptation to Hispanic Rule, pp. 113-4: Link: books.google.pl/books?id=DsjxDAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Babcock,+Apache+Adaptation&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwji8qDgq5j4AhVt_CoKHZA9C_YQ6AF6BAgJEAI#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Post by ouroboros on Jul 16, 2022 13:14:48 GMT -5
William B. Griffen, Apaches at War and Peace: The Janos Presidio, 1750-1858, p. 54 presented an interesting fact from the Spanish-Comanche war against the Apache in 1786-87 :
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Post by ouroboros on Dec 23, 2022 10:37:39 GMT -5
One of the neglected and most terrible aspects of warfare between Comanches and Apaches is the scalp hunting activity started ca. 1851 by the authorities of the Mexican state of Chihuahua.
In the year 1849 the Mexican states of Durango and Chihuahua authorized paying 200 pesos per every scalp – the so-called corona consisting of ears and hair. Many scalp-hunter parties took the field against Apaches and Comanches. In 1851, however, a Mexican officer, Emillio Lamberg, noted that although Comanches and Kiowas were raiding in Chihuahua, Apaches already had devastated much of this state. He suggested that the Comanches should be paid for delivered Apache scalps. Tabe Pete and her two sons/grandsons Bajo el Sol and Mague were invited to Chihuahua City, then the so-called - borrowing a phrase coined by Ralph A. Smith - "Scalp Capital of America". Comanches agreed to stop raiding the state and instead concentrate their warlike activities against Apaches. Although in 1851 the Comanches did not attack Apache rancherias, the next year Tave Tuk and Mague have been paid 18000 pesos for scalps of the Apaches.
Judging from the number of money both Comanche chiefs have received, they had to kill at least 90 Apaches.
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Post by ouroboros on Feb 16, 2023 4:41:07 GMT -5
Interestingly, when Lipan Apaches attacked Mexicans or Americans their used some stratagems to deceive their pursuers and make them believe some other ethnic group actually carried the attack. One of such stratagems included leaving Comanche arrows in the place of the attack. As Andrée F. Sjoberg, Lipan Apache Culture in Historical Perspective, p. 95 writes: Sjoberg paper is free for download from JSTOR: www.jstor.org/stable/3628495?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contentsSuch a stratagem was possibly also used against the Lipan Apaches:
Quoted from: William Edward Dunn, 'Apache Relations in Texas, 1718-1750', in: The Quarterly of the Texas State Historical Association, Vol. 14, No. 3 (Jan., 1911), pp. 198-275, at pp. 216-217 footnote 5
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Post by ouroboros on Nov 26, 2023 8:30:01 GMT -5
Reading an excellent book by William B. Griffen, Utmost good faith : patterns of Apache-Mexican hostilities in northern Chihuahua border warfare, 1821-1848, I came upon an interesting observation by this scholar on p. 128: On p. 184-5 ibidem:
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