What modern descendants (among them Donovin Sprague) and relatives (The Clown family) of Hump say is that Hump (b.1811, d.1870) was the son of the Mnikĥówožu Lakota Black Buffalo (b.1760, d.1816) and his second wife Good Voice Woman [1, 2].
What supports that Hump was born in 1811: 1. a contemporaries story of a warrior activity of Hump in the 1850's
2. the phrase "the bear and his cup"
3. perfect age as a mentor
4. an intra coherence of the family tree
5. the age of Hump is not the only example among the Lakotas of a surprising age
Part 1
Story from contemporaries of Crazy Horse and Hump has been published in 2 books about a fight by Hump and Crazy Horse 3 (b.1840, d.1877) and others against the Gros Ventres (aka Atsinas) [3, 4].
Kingsley Bray explains convincingly in his book that most likely the Oglala Lakotas He Dog (b.ca.1840, d.1936) and Horn Chips (b.1836, d.1916) also spoke about this fight [5].
Both the Oglala Lakota Flying Hawk (b.1852, d.1931) [3] and the Santee Dakota Ohiyesa (Winner) (aka Charles Alexander Eastman) (b.1858, d.1939) [4] said that Crazy Horse was 16 years old when this fight happened.
This fight happened in 1856-1857, most likely in 1857 [5].
The blotahunka (blotáhuŋka) of the Lakota war party was Hump [3].
Before being able to be a blotahunka and lead a war party, then you must have proved yourself earlier.
That means a warrior activity at least in the 1850's.
Additional support for earlier warrior activity than 1860's is from Ohiyesa (Winner) [4].
Ohiyesa's sources said that Hump was at the height of his career when this fight against the Atsinas took place in 1857 [4].
If Hump would have been born between 1830-1835 as suggested by Carlo in reply #17 above and Kingsley Bray in another place on this website [6].
Then it would mean that Hump was between 22-27 years old when the fight in 1857 happened.
That is a low age for a blotahunka.
That is also a low age for someone to be at the height of his career.
So based on that, it is unlikely that Hump was born in 1830-1835.
On their DVD the Clown family told a story about Hump helping Worm (Crazy Horse 2) to steal horses for a gift when getting married to Rattling Blanket Woman [1].
That means a warrior activity in the 1830's, when Hump would have been in his 20's if he was born in 1811.
Of course, that excludes that Hump was born in 1830-1835.
The only "strange" thing is the high age of Hump when he was killed in 1870 if he was born in 1811.
That only emphasize how tough Hump was if he was born in 1811.
Which does not come as a surprise.
You were not considered THE greatest Lakota warrior among the Lakotas for nothing nor for an average "performance".
Part 2
The phrase "the bear and his cup" as a description of Hump and Crazy Horse 3 is from Ohiyesa's sources [4].
This phrase could be referring to a difference in age and/or a size between these 2 males.
The age interpretation is supportive of what the modern descendants and relatives of Hump says.
Ohiyesa specifically says it was due to the age difference [4].
Which supports that Hump was born in 1811 but not in 1830-1835.
Part 3
I read somewhere it was a custom among Lakota that mothers would choose her brother or some other relative to act as a mentor for her young boy.
If Hump was born in 1811, he would fit perfectly into that role.
Unfortunately Crazy Horse's mother was not alive when it came to that period in Crazy Horse's life.
But Hump was an obvious choice for both Crazy Horse's father Worm and Crazy Horse's foster-mothers Good Looking Woman and They Are Afraid of Her.
Crazy Horse's mother couldn't have chosen better.
Part 4
The year of birth of Hump's father Black Buffalo as 1760, according to the Clown family on their DVD [1].
Is in part supported by an independent source.
That is Wendell Smoke, who said that the year of birth for Black Buffalo's first wife, White Cow Woman (aka Iron Cane) was in 1774.
That would mean a 14 years age difference between Black Buffalo and White Cow Woman.
That is a known age difference for a couple.
Black Buffalo being born in 1760 means that he was 51 years old when Hump was born.
That is also a known age for males having children.
(My paternal grandfather was 54 years old when he had his last child)
So the age of Black Buffalo does not exclude him to be the father of Hump.
Since Black Buffalo died in 1816 [1], it excludes that Hump was born in 1830-1835.
Part 5
The surprising age of Hump if born in 1811, is not the only example of a surprising age among the Lakotas.
On Photograph 1 below are at least 2 relatives of Crazy Horse 3 = Lone Horn (b.1804 [1], d.1875-1876 [7]) and Man Afraid of His Horse (b.1800, d.1889) [8].
Lone Horn was Hump's half-brother, having the same father Black Buffalo according to the Clown family on their DVD [1].
When this photograph was taken in 1868 at Fort Laramie, Man Afraid was 68 years old and Lone Horn was 64 years old.
To me they look much younger.
You can't notice that they are both about 20 years older than Spotted Tail 2 (b.1823-1824, d.1881).
Note Spotted Tail 2 was not blood related to Crazy Horse 3 (b.1840, d.1877). The connection between Crazy Horse 3 and Spotted Tail 2 was through Crazy Horse's 3 mother-in-law, see the original post in Part II under the sub-chapter Parents and also the thread Crazy Horse's Brúle grandmother's name [9].
Photograph 1
The Photograph 2 below is a zoom of Lone Horn (above, left) and Big Foot (below, center) (aka Spotted Elk) (b.1826, d.1890) [1, 10, 11] from a photograph of Lakota representatives taken in Washington in 1875.
When this photograph was taken, Lone Horn was 71 years old and Big Foot was 49 years old.
Photograph 2
They are all vigorous, both compared to their age and also their harsh live; freezing cold in the winter and burning sun in the summer and sometimes lack of food.
Another example of Lakota's vigor during the buffalo times is from Francis Parkman's description from his expedition in 1846 [12].
Parkman said that Mena-Seela must have been fully eighty years old, but still he took an active part in a running buffalo hunt [12].
Which is very difficult and dangerous act.
Let's say that Parkman could have overestimated Mena-Seela's age.
I doubt that Parkman would have overestimate the age more than 20 years (30 years is too much overestimation).
Then "Mena-Seela" would have been 60-85 years old.
The lower limit gives roughly the same age as Hump's age when he fought his last battle.
What contradicts that Hump was born in 1811: 1. Written text of Red Feather's oral reply on July 8, 1930 to Eleanor Hinman's question about Hump's age (Interpreter; Annie Rowland) [13].
2. Written text of He Dog's oral reply on July 13, 1930 to Eleanor Hinman's question about Hump's age (Interpreter; John Colhoff) [14].
In both cases it is obvious from the English text of the interviews that Eleanor Hinman is asking about the age of Crazy Horse's 3 mentor [13, 14].
According to the English text, in both interviews Eleanor Hinman mentions different names for Crazy Horse's 3 mentor; Hump [13, 14], High Backbone [13, 14] and Big Breast [13].
According to the English text, both Red Feather and He Dog replied that
High Backbone was about the same age as Crazy Horse 3.
Modern descendants and relatives of Crazy Horse's 3 mentor says his name was
Hump (not High Backbone) [1, 2].
Ohiyesa always writes the name as Hump (not High Backbone) [4].
In the Lakota language, Hump and High Backbone are 2 different names (see below in a separate post).
Although both names means the same and refer to the distinctive look of the buffaloes.
What complicates matters even further is the fact that Hump had 2 sons who had the names Hump (Hump 2) and High Backbone.
Both of them were about the same age as Crazy Horse.
So there was a misunderstanding regarding the names Hump and High Backbone somewhere in the line;
Hinman (speaking) - Interpreter - Red Feather/He Dog - Interpreter - Hinman (writing).
Possibly due to these correlated factors:
a) 2 names with the same meaning (Hump, High Backbone)
b) 3 males in the same family have names with the same meaning (Hump 1, Hump 2, High Backbone)
c) 2 of these 3 males were of about the same age as Crazy Horse (Hump 2, High Backbone).
d) Either or both of Hump's sons could have been with Hump and Crazy Horse when they fought against the Shoshone in 1870 (Hump 2, High Backbone).
According to the written English text, these Hinman's interviews went smooth and everything is clear and there is no confusion.
According to the written English text of these interviews it is clear that Crazy Horse's mentor was about the same age as Crazy Horse.
Even though everything is smooth in the English text, you can't exclude some misunderstanding on the behalf of the questioner, interpreter, responsive and/or the writer (which is by the way a skillful writer).
For example we don't know if the interpreters asked exactly the same questions as Hinman writes in the text.
It is possible that the interpreters rephrased the questions and the answers.
These written English texts (questions and answers) are a consistent writings of how the writer understood the matter.
But the information exchange went on in Lakota language.
We don't know how the discussions in the Lakota went on nor how well the interpreters interpreted the Lakota discussion and how well Hinman understood what was said.
But we see that Hinman prefers to write the name High Backbone in the written text of the interviews.
Which is incorrect name according to modern descendants and relatives of Hump.
That is not a good sign.
We have a similar situation in the Icelandic language where we have 2 names with the same meaning.
The male names Örn and Arnar both means Eagle.
You could have a family with 2 sons with the names Örn and Arnar, just as Hump and High Backbone.
It is not acceptable to confuse 2 related names.
If you confuse the names, then you are talking about a different person.
If I would be asked about Örn, I would tell what I know about Örn.
But I would not tell what I know about Arnar because I was asked about Örn.
The same applies to Hump and High Backbone.
Except it is even more complicated because we have Hump & Hump & High Backbone.
If 3 persons are communicating in 2 languages and if 1 or more person doesn't make a distinction between 2 related names, then some misunderstanding is unavoidable.
That kind of misunderstanding is found within the Hinman's interviews with Red Feather [13] and He Dog [14].
Because Hinman writes High Backbone instead of Hump.
So I have a serious doubt about the main reasons for the support that Hump was born in 1830-1835.
I think it is right what modern descendants and relatives of Hump say, that is Hump was born in 1811.
Hreinn
References:
1. DVD disc: The Authorized Biography of Crazy Horse and His Family, Part One - Creation, Spirituality and The Family Tree, made by Reel Contact in association with Tashunke Witko Tiospaye (2006).
www.reelcontact.com 2.
american-tribes.com/Lakota/BIO/HighBackbone.htm 3. M.I. McCreight, Firewater and Forked Tongues, Trail's End Publishing, 1947, pages 132-133
4. Charles A. Eastman, Indian Heroes and Great Chieftains, Kessinger Publishing LLC, 2010, pages 50-51.
5. Kingsley M. Bray, Crazy Horse - A Lakota Life, University of Oklahoma Press, 2006, footnote 20 on pages 410-411.
6.
american-tribes.com/Lakota/BIO/HighBackbone2.htm 7. The thread Lone Horn of the North on
amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=miniconjou1&action=display&thread=901 8. Reply #105 by Wendell Smoke on
amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=oglala1&action=display&thread=239&page=8 9. The thread Crazy Horse's Brule Grandmother's name on
amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=brule1&action=display&thread=1241 10. The thread Chief Spotted Elk's picture on
amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=miniconjou1&action=display&thread=1009 11.
american-tribes.com/Lakota/BIO/BigFoot-Miniconjou.htm 12. Francis Parkman Jr., The Oregon Trail, Oxford World's Classics, 2008, page 196.
13. R. Eli Paul, The Nebraska Indian Wars Reader 1865-1877, University of Nebraska Press, 1998, page 201.
14. R. Eli Paul, The Nebraska Indian Wars Reader 1865-1877, University of Nebraska Press, 1998, page 189.
15. Richard Hardorff, The Oglala Lakota Crazy Horse, J.M. Carroll and Company, 1985, page 33.
