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Winkte
Aug 27, 2008 11:37:00 GMT -5
Post by grahamew on Aug 27, 2008 11:37:00 GMT -5
I know this has been brought up before and roundly rubbished, but in David Wishart's Encyclopedia of the Great Plains Indians, under berdache, the contributor,Wiil Roscoe of the california Institute of Integral Studies , states that Crazy Horse, and other prominent Plains Indians, numbered a berdache among their wives. Where does the story come from?
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frank
Full Member
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Posts: 148
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Winkte
Aug 27, 2008 23:46:38 GMT -5
Post by frank on Aug 27, 2008 23:46:38 GMT -5
errr...doesnt winkte mean....? Gay?
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tatanka
Junior Member
Live every day like there was no tomorrow
Posts: 68
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Winkte
Aug 28, 2008 6:59:39 GMT -5
Post by tatanka on Aug 28, 2008 6:59:39 GMT -5
There was no stigma attached to the winkte in Lakota society. They usually kept pretty much to themselves but some were respected elders and medicine men.
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Winkte
Aug 28, 2008 8:53:36 GMT -5
Post by jinlian on Aug 28, 2008 8:53:36 GMT -5
I guess behind the whole story there's a misunderstanding about those famous characters having winkte names, which doesn't mean they were actually winkte themselves, but that a winkte gave them a secret name (a frequent thing among Lakotas).
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Winkte
Sept 7, 2008 0:45:12 GMT -5
Post by crawman on Sept 7, 2008 0:45:12 GMT -5
I think in other Tribal societies there was no stigma attached to being gay, they were just accepted for who they were and did what they did. Homosexuality is treated differently in many different cultures like other attitudes and customs. I think the Lakota handled the situation well......
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Winkte
Sept 7, 2008 16:32:16 GMT -5
Post by grahamew on Sept 7, 2008 16:32:16 GMT -5
I'm just interested in where this particular tale originated and, indeed, why it was published without being substantiated.
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Winkte
Sept 10, 2008 1:47:19 GMT -5
Post by crawman on Sept 10, 2008 1:47:19 GMT -5
Well if thats your interest I can't help you but you can be sure whoever started it was out to denigrate Tasunka witko
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Winkte
Sept 10, 2008 6:24:20 GMT -5
Post by grahamew on Sept 10, 2008 6:24:20 GMT -5
I have a sneaking suspicion there was a genuine misunderstanding that has grown into an attempt (a well-meaning one) by gay rights activisits to co-opt famous people for their cause. I don't think there's anything sinister in it, but I was wondering where it originated.
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Winkte
Sept 11, 2008 1:45:35 GMT -5
Post by liverpoolannie on Sept 11, 2008 1:45:35 GMT -5
This is not a new thing of course ..... two - spirit people have been respected and looked upon as people who are both male and female - making them more complete - more balanced than simply a man or a woman. Before the Europeans came and took over their land these people were part of the 'norm' connected with the very heartbeat of the life force we are all part of ... even today Berdaches are accepted in many American Indian societies and in other settings. Two - spirit people - specifically male-bodied (biologically male - gender female) could go to war and have access to male activities such as sweat lodges - however they also took on female roles such as cooking and other domestic responsibilities www.rootschat.com/links/04af/
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Winkte
Jan 24, 2009 13:35:42 GMT -5
Post by Historian on Jan 24, 2009 13:35:42 GMT -5
Though the current Lakota term "winkte" (derived from the older term "winyanktehca" meaning "to be as a woman"), has now included homosexual males as the commonly accepted meaning, my understanding is that the term originally applied to what we would today refer to as a "trans-gender" person, or "two-spirit" person. In other words, a biological male, with the spirit of a woman.
In addition, the manner of choosing an Indian name varies depending on the family or community, but even today, some families will take tobacco to either an elder member of the family, a spiritual interpreter, or a special person recognized as a winkte, and request that a name be chosen for a child. If the person accepts the tobacco, they will then pray with it, and ask the spirits what the name should be. If a name is forthcoming, often the family will gift the person for providing that service.
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Winkte
Jan 26, 2009 15:55:01 GMT -5
Post by ladonna on Jan 26, 2009 15:55:01 GMT -5
Agree HinTamaheca When a child took sick at birth or the first year the family would go to the winkte for a name so that their children would live.
Winkte among the women is a common thing it did not mean they belong to a man but A friend or relative of the women.
We grew up with winkte who travel around with us girls.
I don't really think of Winkte as Gay but as a person born in the wrong sex.
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