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Post by kingsleybray on Jul 12, 2017 2:53:43 GMT -5
Ephriam, thanks for clarifying the No Flesh enigma. I hadn't seen the report showing the 1889 death of the first No Flesh. Is there any indication where the second No Flesh lived on the Cheyenne River Reservation, in which community or district?
I've been told that No Flesh belonged to the Ihoka (Badger, or Badger-mouth) warrior society.
He went to Washington in 1872 as part of the Spotted Tail Agency delegation. After the killing of Whistler in November 1872 there was a dispute over the succession to chieftainship in his sub-division of the Southern or Kiyuksa Oglalas. As a brother or half-brother of Whistler, Two Lance had the hereditary advantage, but No Flesh claimed "that his greater influence, the greater number of his followers, and his better war-record entitle him to 'Whistler's' dignities." No Flesh had 52 lodges in his following compared to 27 in Two Lance's in May 1873. This is based on a report by Capt. Meinhold at Ft McPherson.
After the end of buffalo hunting south of the Platte (in 1875) he seems to have been based at Spotted Tail, not at Red Cloud Agency -- possibly fallout from that succession dispute. In May 1877 however he relocated permanently to the Oglala agency, and seems to have been rewarded by being made akicita itancan (head soldier) of the Southern Oglala/Kiyuksa band by Little Wound and the Kiyuksa council for the 1877 season.
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Post by ephriam on Jul 12, 2017 4:20:02 GMT -5
Thank you, Dietmar:
Yes, Price, in The Oglala People (p. 108) mentions Spotted Horse as a brother of No Flesh, citing an 1872 document about a council. Spotted Horse appears in the Pine Ridge Agency census records up through 1907 (he died some time between 1907 and 1910). So he is not the same individual as No Flesh No. 2 mentioned above. In the Mekeel papers, Spotted Horse is described as having been the chief of the Potato Creek Band ("Really Kiyaksa") but that after he died, White Rabbit was made chief "because Spotted Horse's son was such a liar that they couldn't have him for Chief."
Interesting to note that in the 1890 census for Pine Ridge Agency, Spotted Horse and a number of No Flesh's children were recorded in a band simply known as "Lakota". This band was led by Little Chief and his brother Thunder Bull. This is the core of the later Thunder Bull community. I suspect that No Flesh and Spotted Horse are closely related to Little Chief and Thunder Bull. Maybe all brothers?
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Post by charlie on Jul 12, 2017 5:57:02 GMT -5
Then, we can to resume this thread so: - the most famous NO FLESH (who appears in all photos above except the last) was Kuhinyan (Oglala) by birth and became Wazhazha (Brulè) by marriage with Smoke; - Shell Woman was the wife of another homonym chief; - the most famous NO FLESH born in 1845 and died in 1889 at Pine Ridge (and not after 1916); he belonged to the Ihoka (Badger) warrior society and was not the informant of J. Walker; - the No Flesh who fought with honour at LBH (see Mary Sandoz) was a Brulè and there are not images of him. It's all right or not yet?
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Post by kingsleybray on Jul 12, 2017 7:34:09 GMT -5
charlie, I think you are still confusing some of the elements in the No Flesh story.
I have been told that the 'famous' No Flesh, the one who we now know died at Pine Ridge in 1889, belonged to the Kuhinyan sub-band of the Kiyuksa. He was the son of Big Head (Nasula Tanka, literally Big Brain), who was the Kuhinyan chief in the 1850s. Big Brain was in turn the son of Wears Yellow Earring, a Kuhinyan headman in the roughly 1820s-40s period. No Flesh was also identified with the Badger Eaters sub-band. They were an offshoot of the True Oglala band, and they heavily intermarried with the Kuhinyan in the 1820s-30s. Could No Flesh's mother, for instance, have been a Badger Eater woman? The Badger Eaters by the 1860s-70s was in two groups: one associated with the Southern Oglalas in the country south of the Platte river (this was the Big Head-No Flesh-Whistler outfit); and one associated with the Northern Oglalas in the Powder River Country. This was associated with the lead family of the brothers Black Twin-White Twin-No Water. According to what I have been told, they were not related to the No Flesh extended family.
Big Head was active in 1856 but I do not find mention of him after that date. It seems his sons were not old enough to secure leadership of the Kuhinyan-Southern Badger Eaters sub-band, and the chieftainship passed to Whistler. The sons of Big Head, including Big Head / Brain no. 2, No Flesh, Spotted Horse, come to prominence in the later 1860s-early 1870s.
The famous No Flesh was judging by the photographs born late 1830s-1840+/_. Yes he belonged to the Ihoka warrior society. It's worth noting that according to Makula (aka Left Heron) the Wiciska and Ihoka societies were most commonly employed by the Southern / Kiyuksa Oglala as akicita police. This is more a wild idea but Amos Bad Heart Bull shows hair-fringed shirts as regalia of the Ihoka whip-bearer officers. From his handsome shirt in the Mitchell image, could this be the rank of No Flesh in 1877? No Flesh was head akicita for the Southern Oglala in 1877 (that year -- Keeps the Battle was head akicita for Bad Face; Spider for Payabya; White Bird for Spleen; Red Shirt for Loafer; He Dog for the Crazy Horse village).
The Wazhazha connection is unsubstantiated. I would observe that No Flesh was transferred to Red Cloud Agency from Spotted Tail Agency under date May 3, 1877. That is less than two weeks after the main Wazhazha camp with chief Red Leaf was transferred the other way, from Red Cloud to Spotted Tail. Could be a lot of factors involved, but I have to wonder if No Flesh and the Wazhazha leadership may have been at odds over something.
The famous No Flesh could not have been the informant of James R. Walker. Ephriam has conclusively demonstrated that.
Don't know anything about Mari Sandoz's No Flesh.
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Post by charlie on Jul 13, 2017 9:31:32 GMT -5
Kingsley: thank you for your good explanation. Judging from the photos, I too believe that his date of birth is 1840 or before. About the translation of his name: No Flesh understood as "hungry" or understood as "lean"? CONICA=? WANICA=?
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Post by kingsleybray on Jul 13, 2017 13:59:46 GMT -5
No Flesh is an accurate translation. According to Fr Buechel's Dictionary, Conica (Cho-nee-cha) means "Flesh, meat of any kind"; Wanica (Wah-nee-cha) means "None, without any".
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Post by Californian on Feb 20, 2024 0:27:30 GMT -5
No Flesh by Elbridge Ayer Burbank, Pine Ridge 1898 click onto image to enlarge
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Post by shan on Feb 20, 2024 13:32:21 GMT -5
I've always wondered why a wonderful artist like Elbridge Burbank never gets any recognition in the wider Art world. His portraits in particur are as good as anybodys and yet, unless your intersted in native Americans, or maybe the wild west in general, your highly unlikely to come across his work.
Had his portaits been of the rich and famous, in other words, portraits of the white upper classes, then I suspect that he might be more highly regarded, but then given that his subject matter tended to be about the native Americans, I suspect that the Art world tends to bracket him as eccentric.
Incidently, how do Native Americans feel about being labled in that way, and if they feel uncomfortable with it, how would they prefer to be labled? Lables can be difficult things, when we moved to England we were labled as Irish Catholics which was annoying at first, but with time then one got used to it.
Shan
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Post by Californian on Feb 20, 2024 14:38:32 GMT -5
hi Shan, Elbridge Ayer Burbank was quite prolific, according to his own count, he painted 852 portraits and is said to also have made over 4000 crayon drawings. Most were Native American themed, but he also painted African Americans and a few landscapes. Burbank worked closely with the Bureau of American Ethnography. His uncle, Edward E. Ayer, was the first president of the Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago and was an avid collector of Native American artifacts. Burbank was a contemporary of Joseph Henry Sharp, Joseph Scheuerle and John Hauser all of whom are known for their Native American portraits. Burbank's work is currently highly sought after in the American art market, I wouldn't agree that he was less appreciated than other artists of the time that were active in the same genre. Other artists of the period were Charlie Russell, Frederick Remington and Charles Schreyvogel, but these latter were only marginally involved in portrait painting.
Now quickly on your question about the term "Native American" itself, I would think it is a bit vague as really anyone born in the Americas would be deemed a native. Perhaps "Indigenous American" might be more appropriate or "Aboriginal American". However from my own personal experience I can say as much, that among our friends and acquaintances of Indigenous American background they all are proud to be American Indian and call themselves in that term. Also as a fact, in U.S. government legal terms, including in the U.S. Constitution, the word "Indian/Indians" is firmly established. Think of the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA), Indian Health Service (IHS) among other institutions. In Latin America, the indigenous peoples all refer to themselves as "Indio".
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Post by frenchman on Feb 22, 2024 5:01:12 GMT -5
In september 1871 , différent bands left the agency to spend the winter and hunt on the Republican River ! Among them a band of the Brule tribe which had an organization including Spotte Tail himself but also the headmen Two Strike , Wind ,Black Crow , Roaster ,Crooked Foot and a No Flesh may be our man during a stay at the Brule agency but I am not sure !
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Post by shan on Feb 23, 2024 10:43:57 GMT -5
Californian,
thanks for your helpful reply.
With regard to Burbank and indeed Joseph Henry Sharp who you mentioned, who was also a wonderful portrait painter, when, nearly fifty odd years ago now I was trying to find any art books that dealt with the American Indian as a legitimate subject, one could find plenty of books on Remington and Russell and more especially Catlin but nothing on Burbank and Sharp. I'm not in the least surprised that those two men have since become highly colletable, for from an artistic point of view, they are as good as anyone.
I did once have a website that had pretty much everything that Burbank ever did. I seem to have lost it since, so you don't happen to have it do you? Also, anything on Sharp would be much appreciatted.
thanks Shan
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Post by Californian on Feb 23, 2024 12:03:15 GMT -5
hi Shan, while I am not aware of any specific website(s) dedicated to the work of Joseph Henry Sharp, there are several excellent books out there: - Teepee Smoke - A New Look Into the Life and Work of Joseph Henry Sharp, by Forrest Fenn, 2007 One Horse Land and Cattle Co. Santa Fe NM - The Beat of the Drum and the Whoop of the Dance: A Study of the Life and Work of Joseph Henry Sharp, by Forrest Fenn, 1983 Fenn Publishing Co., Santa Fe NM - The Life & Art of Joseph Henry Sharp, by Peter H. Hassrick (and other contributors), 2019 University of Oklahoma Press, Norman OK - J.H. Sharp Among the Crow Indians 1902-1910, by Carolyn Reynolds Riebeth, 1985 Upton & Sons, Orange CA Author Forrest Fenn I knew personally, he was a notable Indian Art collector and for many years operated an art gallery in Santa Fe. On the other painters, Joseph Scheuerle and John Hauser: - Straight White Shield a Life and Works of John Hauser (1859-1913), by Edward Paxton Harris and Jerry Glenn, 2012 Micro Press Books, Bellevue KY - Joseph Scheuerle and His Indian Gallery, by William H. Gerdts et al., 2000 Cincinnati Art Galleries, Cincinnati OH You should be able to locate all of these books on the used books search engine: www.addall.com/used/
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Post by Californian on Feb 23, 2024 12:12:25 GMT -5
books about E.A. Burbank ...
there is one book I forgot: -Burbank Among the Indians, by E.A. Burbank and Ernest Royce, 1946 The Caxton Printers, Ltd, Caldwell ID
This one is by Burbank himself with Ghost writer Ernest Royce.
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Post by grahamew on Feb 23, 2024 13:25:09 GMT -5
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Post by Californian on Feb 23, 2024 16:50:48 GMT -5
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