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Post by Dietmar on Apr 19, 2012 10:05:47 GMT -5
Debbie,
that´s a wonderful picture of your gr-gr-grandmother. Thank you for sharing it.
Just out of curiosity, can anyone read the photographers imprint on the photo?
Greetings
Dietmar
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debstar76
Junior Member
Tonight Ladonna needs our prayers
Posts: 72
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Post by debstar76 on Apr 19, 2012 11:59:12 GMT -5
At the bottom it looks like "Andrea's..Gordon, Nebr...Most of the old pictures here were taken in Gordon, Nebraska..about 40 miles from Pine Ridge..and 17 miles from the Reservation line..
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Post by hreinn on Apr 19, 2012 15:42:50 GMT -5
Hello Masleca ! Thanks for your reply. I am mutually pleased to converse with you. Like all Lakhota family stories, your family story is a precious gem. It will take some time to digest the wealth of information in your last post. It must have been hard for Walks With White when her 3 years old daughter was kidnapped. It is not difficult to imagine that it could have been a factor in her early death, for example due to a suppression of her immune system in her sorrow. It also must have been difficult for the children, Lena, Delma, Emory and Albert, to be sent far away after their mother‘s death. Hopefully they met more human condition at Indian school in Chillocco than Lakhota children met at Carlisle school. It shows how close these people and events are to us today, when you said that your grandmother Lena was the youngest daughter of Zohy. If you have not already seen it, then here is some information about Alex LaBoeuf (I assume Junior) from Eli S. Ricker‘s interviews [1]: Alex. La Buff (Ricker‘s spelling) worked for Bartlett in Bartlett‘s store at Wounded Knee. He was described as truthful, honest and dependable. "He helped gather & bury the dead & [at] W.K. & knows all abt. it". [1] Charley Allen said that Alex lived at Allen S.D. and that Alex had a single eye (one eye). Following are the closest words I could find in the "New Lakota Dictionary" which could get close to the name Zohy: zuyá = warrior, war party, war zuzéča = snake ziyá = in a yellow color, in yellow condition ziyÁ = to dye or paint something yellow, to tan something Do you know what Zohy means ? I hope you will write more later about your family stories. Hreinn [Voices of the American West, Volume 2, The Settler and Soldier Interviews of Eli S. Ricker, 1903-1919, edited by R.E. Jensen, University of Nebraska Press (2005) pages 59-60.]
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Post by hreinn on Apr 19, 2012 17:29:05 GMT -5
Masleca, here is one thought.
If the name Zohy means yellow something, as mentioned in above in reply #152 as one possibility for a translation of the name Zohy. Then perhaps there is a link between Zohy and Yellow Haired Woman. Perhaps Yellow Haired Woman was Zohy's maternal grandmother.
According to information from Wendell Smoke in reply #77: Yellow Haired Woman was one of Smoke's wives. She was a Southern Cheyenne woman. She was a mother to American Horse and Woman's Dress.
Perhaps Yellow Haired Woman had more children than Wendell Smoke listed. Perhaps Yellow Haired Woman was also mother to Thick Bread, Charging Bear, Walks With White and Walks With Cow. That would mean that Yellow Haired Woman was a maternal grandmother to Zohy.
So Zohy was perhaps given her name in honour of her Cheyenne grandmother Yellow Haired Woman. That would explain why LaDeane Miller had in his note that Zohy was surprisingly born in Cheyenne nation, as mentioned in reply #144.
That would fit nicely to yours genealogy information. Except for a small difference in whether American Horse and Woman's Dress were half brothers or full brothers. Half brothers according to No Neck. Full brothers according to Wendell Smoke.
One way to check this out would be to contact modern Cheyenne people and see if there still exists a memory of Yellow Haired Woman and her relatives.
Hreinn
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Post by masleca on Apr 20, 2012 15:58:08 GMT -5
Hau! Thank you Deb for such a wonderful picture of your great-great grandmother Sungleska Win! Quite possibly my Gr-gr- Aunt! You and hreinn are both so very correct when you say how precious these stories are. Adding a bit to my previous posts, Yes, hreinn, I have often thought how it must have had a terrible effect on my Great-great grandma Walks With White to have her child stolen from her. I have pondered it deeply and even though Alex Senior may have thought he had good reason to act in this manner, it still seems harsh and unthinkable…..not to mention what it must have done to Zohy. When he first left Fort Laramie with her (he actually faked a departure with his buddy Frank DeRosier and camped just a short distance away and snuck back in the night and took Zohy) he headed to the gold strike in Colorado. There he married a Piegan woman. From there they headed across the Oregon trail and ended up in Union Oregon. He must have done ok in the gold fields because he was able to obtain quite a bit of land and horses when they reached Oregon. He was considered pretty well off. Zohy was said to speak a little Lakota, some piegan, some English but mostly French. I have thought about the possible link with her name and the Lakota words pertaining to yellow and although there seems to be a possible link there I think it is more likely that Alex senior had the dominant role in naming her. In French, Zohy means “life”. Anyway, she may have had a nickname or Indian name that her mother called her but that info seems to be lost. I will still follow your cheyenne lead. I know that Zohy nicknamed my Grandmother Lena “Lightening Bird”. One thing my Grandma Lena carried with her from the Indian school was boiling everything she cooked! She told us the nuns taught them to boil everything so that is how she always cooked. Turkey, hamburger, steak, chicken, bread dough, vegies…..didn’t matter…..you boiled it! She also rarely spoke…..and when she did it was very quietly and she never stopped to pause when she took a breath…..she would keep forming words and talking as she inhaled her next breath…..as kids we thought this was pretty funny. She passed in the early 1990’s. I have seen the information about Alex jr. from Ricker’s interviews. I know of his working at the store and having been told to help clean up the frozen bodies at wounded knee. My uncle Ed Amiotte was one of the children in the school at the time. He writes an account of when the buffalo soldiers came in at wounded knee. Also my uncle No Neck was said to have found a baby boy alive after the massacre and raised him as his own. He named him John No Neck who lived a long life. I have more stories and info on No Neck. I will tell them in the future. Back to Alex Jr….the story behind him having one eye was he and a friend were shooting at a raccoon under the house from opposite sides……guess what happened. Another great story, it turns out that a banker from Martin had purchased some Lakhota artifacts many years ago and had them on display in his bank in Martin for years. The beaded pipe bag that he had turned out to be my uncle Alex jr’s. It has since been returned to the family and his great grand daughter Pat (my cousin) now has possession of it. (It was on display in the Jacksonville Museum in Oregon but I think it is now with her or there was talk of bringing it back to Pine Ridge. I will find out and get back on that one.) I am so grateful to have found this sight and for the time and energy that everybody puts into this….especially those of you who have taken time to brainstorm some of my personal questions regarding my family and relating to me your ideas and information. I want to tell you that this researching and digging for hidden info has been rewarding! I also want to say that a lot of these places I have been compelled to “go to” to find and uncover this precious info has been prompted by dreams, visions and guidance. Over and over they have proven to be reliable sources of info for me. I don’t dream or “see” exact answers to my questions but I do get clues and riddles to solve. For example, several years back I was at Pine Ridge hoping to locate my Great Grandma Zohy’s land allotment……I didn’t have a clue where it was…..all I knew was grandma used to talk about riding horses on pass creek so that is where I started. I wandered around the area for several hours and at sunset finally ended up at Wounded Knee. I was sitting there wondering what to do when a huge green meteor burned down from the north to the south apparently pointing to and area southeast of Martin. I considered it a sign and headed that way. Sometime around midnight I ended up on a little dirt road just inside South Dakota above the Nebraska border….about 15 miles from Eli. I pulled over and slept in my car right there. Soon after I fell asleep I had a dream of Red Cloud. He came charging up to my face and looked at me as if to say “This is of the utmost importance!” “Get Serious!” He seemed angry. The next morning I left there feeling like I had failed in finding the property. Later when I returned home I received new info on my family including land allotment locations….turns out, where I slept, was less than one mile from Zohy’s property! So after that longwinded story, I am saying this because I have had another dream pertaining to this search for the connection of Walks With White and The Smoke Family. Some may think it silly, but humor me. They have given good results before. My Dream three days ago: I was standing before two Indian men who were dressed in traditional regalia…..not of this time…..The fellow on the right was a close relative and he was introducing me to another relative who I had not met. I remember my close relative saying something about this new relatives name having “horse” in it…..and he laughingly said he was from the cookie family like that was a private joke or something that I didn’t understand. I turned to the fellow on the left who I was just meeting for the first time and said to him “I don’t know anything about you but I have heard we were related” . That is it. Doesn’t seem like much but it was very impressive and dominated my thought for these last few days. My take on this: I started searching for any Lakota families named “cookie”…..after a couple days of finding only Lakota bakery’s that made great cookies I decided that I wasn’t thinking about this right. In the dream those guys were in traditional dress….and they didn’t seem alarmed talking to me so I am assuming I was in traditional dress also. (I have dreamed of this before) I fit in. So the next thing I thought was even though I was understanding all this like it was in English, maybe I should be looking Lakota language. So I started to look for cookie in Lakota…..well there aren’t too many people with the name aguyapi skuyela so I soon looked for close sounding words…..Koki! Afraid!….He was joking that the guy was from the afraid family but I knew it was a joke(Lakota dry humor) and his name was horse something…….Man afraid of his horses was the new relative that I was introduced to! I now know this. With this info I started to look again at info on him and realized I had overlooked that one of his decendents who was the keeper of his headdress was named Zohy Afraid of his Horses! I think it is a link. A family name? I am not sure how but I am looking. Ok, I have demanded way too much of everyone to read all this so I will quit for now. Thanks
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Post by hreinn on Apr 21, 2012 8:54:44 GMT -5
Great post Masleca. It's a gift to be able to make a use of one's dreams and visions. One should always take a notice of them, especially if you sense a wanáği and not to mention wakĥáŋ akíčhita. We are obviously "on the same line" ! Besides also picking up the possible yellow connection to Zohy. I also noticed the name Zohy Man Afraid of His Horse, after re-reading Wendell Smoke's posts after posting reply #153. Following that, I wondered if the male name Zohy could be related to the name Yellow Eagle. Because there exists references to Yellow Eagle as a brother to Old Man Afraid of His Horse. But that connection between Zohy and yellow something, is too far reached. OK. I see you have done your research by checking the french meaning of Zohy and agree with you that most likely it was Alex Sr. who was most influential in given Zohy her name. But perhaps the name Zohy was chosen because it would fit in the languages/cultures of both parents. That approach to choose a name for a child is well known in my society nowadays. The silence of your grandmother Lena is a sign (not "proof", there have to be other signs also) of a traumatic experience in childhood. It is no wonder, because she lost her mother and was sent away to a school far away from any loving relative(s) except her siblings. And who knows what happened in the school. It has recently surfaced in my society a bad treatment of children in schools where the children were far away from their home. I am sure that Alex Sr. thought it would be better for Zohy to grow up among the whites. But he ignored or was not aware of the importance for the child to associate with both parents. And preferably to grow up among caring relatives. It is well known if children suffer an immense negative emotional experience. For example a loss of a parent, lack of love, physical violence, sexual abuse etc.. It affects the children so much that they bury the experience deep inside and keep it there locked. But unfortunately the effects comes unintentionally on the surface in adult years. The adult person is either much withdrawn or much outgoing. This is called personality disorder in English and shows up in many different ways with different signs. Depending on the person. This is not to be confused with a lunacy or that kind of things. This is just such a traumatic experience for the children, that it effects the person immensely. Did Walks With White, Walks With Cow, Alex. Jr. (and later Zohy & Lena) grow up/live as adults among Hunkpatilla thiyóšpaye (band) ? If they did, do you know if they followed Old Man Afraid of His Horse when he split from Hunkpatilla and formed Payabya ? If not, do you know to which thiyóšpaye they belonged to ? Do you know if or how Old Man Afraid of His Horse was related to Yellow Eagle ? Do you know the family background of the several Yellow Eagles within the Hunkpatilla thiyóšpaye ? or Hard to Hit ? or Buffalo Tongue ? or Iron Whiteman ? Are there any statements regarding Standing Bull/Standing Buffalo in your genealogy information ? Would you like to say something about Ed Amioette's account on when the Buffalo Soldiers came to Wounded Knee ? Hreinn
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plund
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by plund on Apr 22, 2012 9:24:36 GMT -5
Hello, my name is Patricia Foster Lund. My mother was Lucille Lucy LaBuff. She was a daughter of Alex Jr. who was the Alex that worked in the store at Pine Ridge and later helped bury the dead. Alex Jr was married to Sara Marshall 1st and they had 2 daughters, i named Zohy and the other named Rhoda. He married my grandmother Alice Bowman and they had Thomas, Godfrey, Guy, Jeannette, Adeline Angelique aka Ida, and my mother Lucy. From my mother and aunt I know that he was born in 1862, Died in 1933 near Long Valley and is buried at Lake Creek. He is the son of Walks with White and had 1 sister named Zohy who married Amiotte. My mother told me that my grandfather's named meant man with 2 big horses. She did tell me about him losing his eye shooting with 1 of his Amiotte cousins. And I am so very proud about getting my family things back, and I keep hoping that my Grandfather will lead me to the rightful place it should be...as I have many relatives that would sell it and or would not really be interested in preserving it for the family. I also have heard the story of my Aunt Zohy being taken away by Alex Sr. some had said that Alex Sr. himself could have been part French and maybe Pigeon Blackfoot or Cheyenne. I have wondered for many yrs. who his mother was. And that is supposition on why when he left with Zohy we went and married a women from that tribe as he headed for Oregon.
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Post by masleca on Apr 22, 2012 13:46:15 GMT -5
Hey Pat! It's me Ken (masleca) your cuz! So glad to see you back here. Suzanne told me about this site and it has been a wonderful source of info with many great people to communicate and share with. As you see I have already mentioned you and Uncle Alex's pipe bag. I think we can eventually get to the bottom of who's who in our family....mainly trying to verify that Walks With White was a Daughter of Old Smoke.....or a very close relation. Anyway good to see you here and I will be posting more as I get some time.
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Post by hreinn on Apr 22, 2012 17:00:24 GMT -5
Regarding who were parents of Walks With White: From this thread, we have several sources which say Walks With White's father was Smoke (Smoke 1, Old Smoke). We have one source which say Walks With White's mother was Rattling Iron who was Smoke's wife. according to my family history and supposed lineage, Chief Smoke married Rattling Iron who had a daughter "Walks with White", my Maternal great-great-great grandmother. But on the opposite we have Wendell Smoke who has listed Smoke's wives and children. Where there is no mention of Rattling Iron nor Walks With White. Smoke had 5 wives & 10 children, "1 daughter & 9 sons";
Smoke had Ulala aka Spotted horse woman from his 1st wife Looking cloud woman; she was from the Minneconju!
Smoke had Man afraid of his horses I & Smoke II from his 2nd wife Comes out slow woman; she was from the Oglala!
Smoke had Big mouth & Blue horse from his 3rd wife Burnt her woman; she was from the Sicangu!
Smoke had Amercan horse I & Woman dress from his 4th wife Yellow haired woman; she was from the Southern Cheyenne Tribe!
Smoke had No neck from his 5th wife Brown eyes woman; she was from the Hunkpapa!
Smoke had 2 nephews that he adopted as sons, Red cloud in 1825 & Bull bear III in 1841! Walks With White had 4 other siblings: According to No Neck, he was the son of Old Smoke and Brown Eyes. He also stated that his ½ brother Woman Dress’s mother was Burnt her. No Neck states in our records that Thick Bread, American Horse, Charging Bear, Walks With White and Walks With Cow were all full brothers and sisters. Himself as well as Woman Dress, Spotted Bear and Breath Wind (Ulala?) were considered Half brothers and sisters. By picking out the name Thick Bread, and noticing we have a reference to him from another source: But further in the history it seems from checking the government records at Pine Ridge (by my family's geneologist), Thick Bread's parents were listed as Bear's Foot and Ratteling Iron. And also noticing this: There was also some mention of Old Smoke possibly being brothers with Bear’s Foot and Pacer. This seems to be old family speculation. And with the restriction that Wendell Smoke has the full list of Smoke's wives and children. Then we have this possibility: The couple Bear's Foot + Rattling Iron had 5 children: 1. Walks With White (aka. Pretty Woman & Good Woman) 2. Walks With Cow 3. American Horse 4. Thick Bread 5. Charging Bear As Smoke and Bear's Foot (and Pacer) could have been "brothers" in the wide Lakhota terminology. Therefore Smoke would have been called "father" to Walks With White and her siblings in the wide Lakhota terminology. Can we find out the family background of Bear's Foot and Pacer ? And find out how Bear's Foot and Pacer were related to Smoke ? Hreinn
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Post by hreinn on Apr 29, 2012 10:20:39 GMT -5
One thought:
Was Rattle Iron a sister/"sister" to one of Smoke's wives ?
Hreinn
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debstar76
Junior Member
Tonight Ladonna needs our prayers
Posts: 72
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Post by debstar76 on May 9, 2013 16:16:14 GMT -5
Masleca...I found some thing that may be of interest to you...I was looking over my Great grandparents John Conroy(son of Ulala Smoke) and Lucy (Luta) Gerry's marriage licence..from 1885, they were married in Pine Ridge, July 8th of that year..by John Robinson, Missionary...and their witnesses were Alex LaBuff and Lucy Shangreau!! I think that shows they were related.
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Post by hreinn on May 19, 2013 14:58:26 GMT -5
It seems that Bear's Foot was the Sihasapa chief Barefoot (a.k.a. Grass). I am talking about this Bear's Foot: There was also some mention of Old Smoke possibly being brothers with Bear’s Foot and Pacer. This seems to be old family speculation. But further in the history it seems from checking the government records at Pine Ridge (by my family's geneologist), Thick Bread's parents were listed as Bear's Foot and Ratteling Iron. No Neck states in our records that Thick Bread, American Horse, Charging Bear, Walks With White and Walks With Cow were all full brothers and sisters. Hayden lists Bear's Foot (si-ćo'-la) as a chief of the Jawbone band (ći-hu'-pa) [1]. But Bear's Foot is an incorrect translation of the Lakota name si-ćo'-la. Because si-ćo'-la [1] = sičhóla [2] means Barefoot [2]. Derived from the words sí which means foot [3] and čhóla which means without or lacking [4] Similar to Sihásapa (Sihasapa) which means Blackfeet (Lakota) [5]. (Just before posting this: I noticed that Kingsley Bray had earlier noticed this mistranslation Bear's Foot - Barefoot [14]) Barefoot is a name of a Sihasapa Lakota chief. Who was also known as Warrior Who Walks Barefoot [6] and Grass (Grass 1) [6]. Grass 1 was father to Grass 2 (aka. Used As Their Shield/Shields All) and grandfather to Grass 3 (aka. John Grass and Charging Bear) [6]. Barefoot's father was Elk Man, who was a son of Big Elk, who was a son of Moose (aka. Big Deer) [6]. See further discussion about these persons here on this website [7, 8, 9, 10]. It is logical to link Smoke to Barefoot, because both had Sihasapa roots. Smoke's father was a Sihasapa Lakota named Body Parts (aka. Parts of Body) [12, 13]. Barefoot has also an Oglala connection. Because Barefoot was said to have been born among the Oglalas [9, 11]. If that is correct or not is a little bit complicated matter and out of the scope here. But it seems to be some Oglala connection there. The Smoke - Barefoot - Grass connection is also in accordance to Wendell Smoke's words: Old Chief Smoke was related to other powerful men of the Lakota Nation like Chief Lone “One” Horn, to Crazy Horse, note: he wasn’t a chief just a great warrior, to probably Chief Charging Bear, later on, known as John Grass, & Etc. In reply #128 on page 9, is a photograph of John Grass in Smoke's shirt. Now we understand better why him of all men, was wearing Smoke's shirt. Note that another name for John Grass (Grass 3) was Charging Bear. That was also the name of one of Barefoot's (Bear's Foot's) son. One of the siblings Thick Bread, American Horse, Walks With White, Walks With Cow and Charging Bear. It's not a proof of a connection, but could be an indication of a name running in the family. So it seems we understand better the family background of Walks With White and her siblings. Where their father was likely the Sihasapa chief Barefoot. But we still have to find the family background of their mother, Rattling Iron Woman. If Barefoot and Smoke called each other "brother", as quoted above. It would mean that their fathers were biological brothers (or would it perhaps also cover "brothers" ?) It would mean that Body Parts and Elk Man were brothers. Hreinn References: 1. Hayden, Contributions to the Ethnography and Philology of the Indian Tribes of the Missouri River Valley (1862), page 376 2. Ullrich, New Lakota Dictionary (2008), page 801 3. Ullrich, New Lakota Dictionary (2008), page 888 4. Ullrich, New Lakota Dictionary (2008), page 93 5. Ullrich, New Lakota Dictionary (2008), page 809 6. Website of Richard Grass which now is hosted at: www.lakotadakotanakotanation.org/RichardGrass/THE%20SIHASAPA%20STORY.html 7. Grass amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=blackfoot1&action=display&thread=206 8. Another Indian called Grass ? amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=blackfoot1&action=display&thread=1317&page=1 9. Fire Heart / Chanta Peta amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=blackfoot1&action=display&thread=1252 10. www.american-tribes.com/Lakota/BIO/JohnGrass.htm 11. www.welchdakotapapers.com 12. He Dog to Scudder Mekeel in 1931. Mekeel Papers, American Museum of Natural History, New York 13. Wendell Smoke in this thread, reply #49 14. www.american-tribes.com/Lakota/BIO/BareFoot.htm
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Post by miller7513 on May 20, 2013 13:57:48 GMT -5
hreinn-If Barefoot and Smoke called each other "brother", as quoted above. It would mean that their fathers were biological brothers (or would it perhaps also cover "brothers" ?) It would mean that Body Parts and Elk Man were brothers. Read more: amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=oglala1&action=display&thread=239&page=11#ixzz2TrQ6EieWOR-It could mean- If Barefoot and Smoke called each other "brother", then it could mean their wives were sisters or aunts- or mean that Body Parts and Elk Man wives were sisters LaDeane
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Post by hreinn on Aug 22, 2013 14:54:41 GMT -5
There seems to be some confusion regarding Smoke's daughter Spotted Horse Woman. The information from Wendell Smoke (W. Smoke) and Deb (debstar76) on this website does not fit together upon a closer look. Hello Mr Wendyll Smoke, I am a relative of yours, My GGGrandmother was Ulala/Eulalia aka Owns Spotted Horse Woman. My Grandfather was Thomas Conroy, his father was Ulala's oldest son John Conroy. Deb, Hello, I know the Conroys direct lineage of their family tree, Ulala Smoke a.k.a. Spotted Horse Woman was the only daughter of the Old Chief Smoke and his first wife; Looking Cloud Woman of Teton Minneconju band. Ulala was first married to old Bull Bear (one of his wives; the youngest wife), but he was abusive and aggressive to her. So her cousin/brother Red Cloud killed old Bull Bear in 1841 (one of the reasons that Red Cloud killed him for), then after awhile Ulala got interested and, later on, married (second married) a Irish military officer and a interpreter; Thomas John Conroy at Fort Laramie Wyoming. They had two children; a boy (American Baby/Boy) John and a girl unknown. John had one son named; Taylor, he had one son named Eli, he having three sons; Arlo, Cornell and Corbin Conroy. They’re alive today, and are the direct great-great-grandsons of Ulala Smoke and Thomas Conroy. Cornell gave me some papers on Ulala and Thomas. Thank You Wendyll, I never knew GGGrandmother Ulala was married before, How very interesting! hreinn... Yes, Ulala/Eulalia Conroy aka Ownes Spotted Horse Woman, is the woman on the Census with Mary "Mrs Sandy Williams" and her Brother Frank.. Ulala was born Jan 1834, (I also think that Grandma Ulala's birth year was around 1830 or 1827, other than what was stated in Census's)the old Indian Census rolls, never kept the ages right on those census's from year to year..sometimes they were just copied from the year before also.. Frank Conroy was married to Victoria Standing Bear..they had 4 or 5 children..Oldest son Harry was Tribal President in 1950.. In the Crazy Horse Surrender ledger, Ulala is listed as "Mrs Conroy" not at Spotted Horse Woman, who was someone else..many people had the same names. Ulala always went by Conroy, so I don't think she ever remarried, even her headstone reads..Ulala Conroy..she died Mar 10, 1907. If Ulala was born in 1834, then she would have been 7 years old when Bull Bear was killed in 1841. Therefore too young to be Bull Bear's wife. It would be the same even though we stretch her date of birth to 1830 or 1827, because then she would have been 11 and 14 years old, respectively. Possible explanations: 1. Ulala's date of birth is incorrect 2. Ulala/Spotted Horse Woman was never married to Bull Bear 3. We are talking about 2 different Spotted Horse Woman. a) Spotted Horse Woman 1, who was Smoke's daughter and who married Bull Bear b) Spotted Horse Woman 2, who married Thomas Conroy Which is perhaps reflected in 2 slightly different versions of her name. According to Wendell Smoke = Spotted Horse Woman. According to Deb = Owns Spotted Horse Woman. Hreinn
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debstar76
Junior Member
Tonight Ladonna needs our prayers
Posts: 72
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Post by debstar76 on Sept 2, 2013 12:14:03 GMT -5
Hreinn,...I also had wondered and questioned that also...Grandmother Ulala's real birthyear has always been questionable...looking back on the Indian roll census's, it was never the same year..I don't know if she knew her true age myself..And I do think she may have been older, 3 to 4 early census's show her to have been born about 1827, then it changed later to 1834..her headstone reads that she died in 1907 and was 73 years old,making her birthyear to be around 1834.(and written in Lakota it says "Spotted Horse Win") Grandmother Ulala has a probate document,it belongs to another family member..I'm hoping to get to read it soon. Many family members have called her Spotted Horse Win, but my grandpa Tom always said it was Ownes Spotted Horse woman.. Wendell and I are talking about the same person..with just different variations of her name, as it goes here between different family members...his oral history has been written down..And we've all known that we were related no questions..
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