Hello Dietmar, Thanks for the welcome and encouragement. I am excited to find this forum and not at all discouraged. I am doing alot of researching on my own and will be glad to share whatever I find , with the everyone here as the info comes along. Thanks again, masleca
Hello Masleca, Nice to meet with you, I know a little bit about Walks with White, from a corresponence with another Family tree Researcher..let me look into my files, and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. My 4th Great Grand father was Chief Smoke.. Deb
Here is a little more information on Walks With White, my great, great Grandmother. I am hoping that this additional info will help prod some memories or ring some bells. I know there are a lot of different stories pertaining to the Smoke family and rather than try to pick apart the differences I have decided to try to make connections with the facts that are in comman. As I have said before (and others) our genealogical records say that Walks With White was a daughter of Old Smoke. I know this is at odds with Wendyll’s Information, but lets look at what seems to be linked. I feel we are but one or two bits of info away from getting to the bottom of this. Many of the sons of old Smoke are listed as the same in our info as it is in Wendyll’s. Most of our information came from my Great, great Uncle No Neck as told to his nephew, my Great Uncle, Ed Amiotte. Because of the fact that Walks With White died at such a young age it is no wonder that little is known about her. She had two children before she died. Her first child, Zohy, was kidnapped by her father Alex senior and taken off to the Oregon territory so Walks with White never saw her again. Zohy was about age three when this occurred. Her second child was a son and she named him Alex in memory of his Father. After she died, her sister Walks with Cow raised her son Alex. Zohy later returned to Pine Ridge and remained until she died. Walks with Cow raised Alex and when he married and had a son, he called him alex but walks with Cow named him Charging Bear after her Brother. (another clue) When Walks with Cow died in 1914 a hearing over her estate was attended by close family including No Neck, Thick Bread, Woman Dress, William Shangreau and John Shangreau. It is also mentioned that Zohy’s Uncles, Thick Bread, No Neck and Woman Dress used to camp out at her allotment in the sand hills. It is also mentioned in our records that No Neck refered to Zohy’s mother (walks with white) as “his sister” and called her Wiya Waste or Good Woman. Another connection is the Conroy family were considered cousins of Zohy LeBoeuf Amiotte (Zohy married Steve Amiotte). Another cousin was Emma Smoke. Maybe some of this might jog somebody’s memory and bring a little more light to this mystery.
Masleca, regarding your post above I would like to ask you some questions:
Did the sisters Walks With White and Walks With Cow have the same mother and father ? Do you know the name(s) of their mother(s) or their band background ? Do you know the last name of Alex senior ? Do you know when Zohy and Alex junior were born ? Do you know when Walks With White died ? Did the information from No Neck and Ed Amiotte include how No Neck and Old Man Afraid of His Horse were related to Smoke ? Did the information from No Neck and Ed Amiotte include any names of other relatives of Smoke (his siblings, parents, grandparents) ? Do you know further details of how Zohy would have been related to the Conroy family ?
Debstar76, do you have any answers/comments regarding these questions ?
I've have a 1870 Federal Census for Union County, Oregon 26,July 1870 listing Alex and family.(Not saying this is the same Alex) A LeBuff age 38 a farmer born in Canada C LeBuff age 24 Keeping House Z LeBuff age 10 at home S LeBuff age 6 at home M LeBuff age 4 at home G LeBuff age 2 at home From another contact (from Ancestry.com) on Alexander LeBuff aka Alexander LeBeouf born 1832 Canada French died 1894 Pincher Creek,Alberta,Canada father listed as a Jacques LeBeouf...no date Walks With White-LeBuff born 1838-? had son named Alex LeBuff born 1862...he had two wives listed with him
Federal Census of 1900 for the Pine Ridge Indian Reervation,Shannon Co. Alex LeBuff age 38, Listed as Indian, married twice, born May 1862 Wyoming, Asst.Rancher Alice Bowman LeBuff Wife age 28 born 1871 Nov..at home...Ration Indian Zohy dau, age 11,born Dec 1888, SoDak...ration Indian Rhoda, dau, age 5, born 1894...SoDak....ration Indian Thomas, son, age 1, born 1898..SoDak...ration Indian Alex (can't read the lastname, looks like Lee) Nephew, born 1893..SoDak. Pleases Herself LeBuff..Wife, age 25, born 1875, Nebraska...Ration Indian. Zohy was the daughter of the second Alexander born in 1862..according to this census.. This is all I have right now on the LeBuff family...I don't know what the Conroy connection is unless they are referring to the Smoke family..and through my 2nd Great Grandmother Ulala Conroy.. Deb
I also think that is quite possible that Walks With White was one of Smokes daughters as he did have many wives.. Looking back over what I have from Ancestry.com.. There is another family tree listing Alex LeBuff jr. with his mother's name as "Pretty Woman", where as the others say "Walks With White" or just "Walks With" Daughter Zohie/Zohy is listed with her mother as being Pleases Herself..and father Alexander LeBuff (Jr)...her birth is listed as Dec 1888.. Children with wife Alice Bowman and Alex Jr.. are written as... Tybery LeBuff born 1890 Rhoda LeBuff born 1896 Thomas LeBuff born 1899 Godfrey LeBuff born 1904 Jeanette LeBuff born 1904 Adeline Angelique Le Buff born 1907 Lucy LeBuff born 1913
On a 1899 Indian Census Rolls..Alex born 1860 age 39 Alice (Bowman), Wife, age 27 Zonie , dau, age 11 Rhoda, dau, 5 yrs 6mons, Thomas Bowman, Brother in Law, age 22 Alex Lee, age 7 (Iwas right) Thomas LaBuff, son age 8
On a 1890 Federal Census for Pine Ridge, lists Alex LaBuff (Jr) as son and Mrs Tibbets...??
I do hope more information can be found on Walks with White/good Woman/Pretty Woman...I'll keep looking also... Deb
You have perhaps seen this. Part of it is the similar to what you wrote above. LaDeane Miller has in his book Families of Pine Ridge some information about Walks With White and her children, based on Pine Ridge records from 1886 to 1899. According to LaDeane Miller, Walks With White (b.1840) married LeBuff and together they had at least 1 boy + 1 girl.
The girl's name was Zona LeBuff (b.1858 in Cheyenne nation !, d.≥1900). She married Stephen Amioette. Together Zona LeBuff and Stephen Amioette had 11 children, among them was Edward Amioette (b.1879) who married Delia Rooks (b.1886). This is perhaps Ed Amioette who Masleca mentioned in reply #140.
The boy's name was Alexander LeBuff (b.1860, d.1935). In 1893, he married Sarah Marshall (b.1857).
LaDeane has information about Zona LeBuff, Alexander LeBuff and Rhonda LeBuff. LaDeane has an information about many Conroy's There is no information about Walks With Cow in LaDeane Miller's book. I wonder how exactly Ed Amioette was related to No Neck.
May I say first, hello hreinn, pleased to converse with you, hello debstar, Sorry for my slow responses. Addressing your questions hreinn, I am assuming that Walks With White and Walks With Cow were full sisters. This is what our geneology states. It is also stated that they were daughters of Old Smoke. We do not know who her Mother was. Both sisters were listed as full blood Oglala in the pine ridge records. This is why I am searching for more concrete info on their parents. In our records we have Walks With White born about 1836. She Married Alex LaBuff (LaBoeuf) before 1855 in an Indian ceremony. This is recorded in the pine ridge records. She died before 1865. Her two children were Zohy and Alex Jr. Zohy born in 1857 and Alex in 1862. Alex LaBoeuf senior kidnapped his daughter Zohy from Fort Laramie when Walks With White refused to leave with him to go westward. She was pregnant with Alex Jr. when this occurred and Alex senior and Zohy didn’t learn about Alex Jr. until many years later. Walks With White died shortly after Alex’s birth. Alex senior and his daughter Zohy were living in Union Oregon at that time. (Deb, your records are pretty much the same as mine.Yes it is the same Alex LaBoef) . Zohy learned of her brother from a French trapper and friend of her father. (Frank DeRosier). When she learned this, her and her husband Steve Amiotte changed their minds and instead of moving to Canada, they headed back to Pine Ridge. This was about 1886. They arrived back at Pine Ridge in 1889. Although her mother Walks with White was dead, Her Aunt Walks With Cow was there to greet her when they arrived. After Walks With White’s death, her sister Walks With Cow raised Alex Jr. We have also heard mentioned that Walks with White was called “Pretty Woman” and also “Good Woman”. No Neck called her “Wi Waste”. This is not to be mixed up with “Pleases herself” a decendent of Walks with White on her son Alex’s side. Also Zohy and Steve Amiotte had 14 children, two died in Oregon. My Grandmother Lena was Zohy’s last child. As for reference to Old Man Afraid of His Horses by No Neck….we have none. According to No Neck, he was the son of Old Smoke and Brown Eyes. He also stated that his ½ brother Woman Dress’s mother was Burnt her. No Neck states in our records that Thick Bread, American Horse, Charging Bear, Walks With White and Walks With Cow were all full brothers and sisters. Himself as well as Woman Dress, Spotted Bear and Breath Wind (Ulala?) were considered Half brothers and sisters. There was also some mention of Old Smoke possibly being brothers with Bear’s Foot and Pacer. This seems to be old family speculation. As far as Zohy’s relation to the Conroys….they are just mentioned as cousins….no other info. Also, Ed Amiotte considered No Neck his Uncle. (his mother, Walks With White’s brother). No Neck was present at many of our family gatherings and also witness (along with Thick Bread and Woman Dress) at the death of his sister Walks With Cow. Considering that Walks With Cow lived a long life and her family as well as Alex LaBoeuf Jr. had many decendents, this may be one of the places where we find hidden information. There is also a long list of decendents through my Great grandma Zohy and her 12 surviving children all Amiottes. I have only made contact with a few. When Zohy died, My Grandma Lena and her sister Delma, and her brothers Emory and Albert were all sent to the Indian school in Chillocco, Oklahoma for five years. Also , yes, that is the same Ed Amiotte that I am talking about. His is my Uncle and was married to Delia Rooks. Deb your list of Alex Jr.’s decendents is as ours…..I also have mention of other families related to them. Maybe as we dig and search some of this info will be helpful. I have much more info than just this but it gets a little overwhelming at times so if I have missed something or misstated of if anyone has any questions, please let me know and I will answer to my best ability. One other note, Zohy’s name has been mis spelled may times even in our records. Zona, Zora, Zoe, are among them.
What a wonderful story...I just love to hear and read all the informational stories from other descendants..it's brings us back full circle together..seeing where we all came from..and know what our Ancestors went through to survive and so that their descendants would still be living today. This is Beautful way to remember and honor their memory. by writing it down on these pages...for our Grandchildren to read. I can't wait to see what we will out find next...! My Great Great Grandmother's name was Ownes Spotted Horse Woman/Ulala (or Eulalia on the old Indian Census's)..born in 1834..her mother was Looking Cloud Woman..her father was Shota/Smoke.. She also had a interesting life history as Walks With White..maybe I'll talk about it later sometime..
My Great Great Grandmother Sungleska Win..Ownes Spotted Horse Woman..aka Ulala/Eulalia Conroy..Married twice once briefly to Bull Bear (as told by Wendell Smoke) and second to Thomas Conroy..Irish Blacksmith for the Calvery..Fort Laramie,Wyoming..
Picture from the Mary Conroy Williams family collection..Theresa Ralph owner. Thanks Theresa..
Post by miller7513 on Apr 18, 2012 16:54:40 GMT -5
Hello all-to straighten out SOME of the facts- Womans Dress-pg 33 & 35 "The Death Of Crazy Horse" was a brother of Keeps The Battle, both being related to the renowned Northern Oglala Iron Hawk-also related to Louis Shangreau and Baptiste Pourier through marriage Womans Dress was arrested for violating his trust as an Indian Scout by McGillycuddy-Aug 1882 pg 278 "Red Cloud and The Sioux Problem"
Pretty Fellow is Womans Dress- pg 133 "Crazy Horse" the Strange Man of the Oglalas by Mari Sandoz Pretty One (Pretty Fellow) Later Named: Woman’s Dress= Grandson of Smoke; Son of Bad Face; Standing Bear = Bad Face; Brother of Woman’s Dress pg 33 The Death Of Crazy Horse related to Iron Hawk
Lone Bear was a Brother of Woman Dress and Woman Dress was Red Cloud's first cousin According to Mari Sandoz (Oglala Lakota College) and pg 296 "Red Cloud's Folk" Womans Dress was the son of the Chief called Bad Face and a grandson of Smoke, a cousin of He Dog who was the son of Red Clours sister. A great aunt was Red Clouds mother and a sister of Smoke and a relative, Iron Hawk of the same family Said by American Horse II to be a brother of American Horsre III-1st cousin of Red Cloud-brother of Standing Bear-brother Lone Bear 1/2 brother of Little Wolf and 1/2 brother of Bull Head- cousin by marriage to Big Bat Pourier LaDeane
Post by miller7513 on Apr 18, 2012 17:17:56 GMT -5
P. S. Womans Dress - Crazy Horse Surrender Ledger pg 34 1-3-4-4 Oglala pg 69 4-2-3-2 Red Cloud Goes Around, Pulls The Arrow, and Beats The Head pg 123 beef record Sitting Bear and Old Smoke 30 in lodge pg 145 ration ticket 30 in lodge LaDeane