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Post by Dietmar on Dec 17, 2016 11:08:34 GMT -5
An example of a gunstock club with only one knife: No Flesh
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Post by grahamew on Dec 20, 2016 12:39:28 GMT -5
Great photo!
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fred
New Member
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Post by fred on Dec 21, 2016 12:59:06 GMT -5
That has to be the most gruesomely fearsome weapon I have ever seen, especially with more than one knife embedded.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by Dietmar on Dec 29, 2016 13:24:16 GMT -5
Kingsley has sent me this interesting picture of a man holding a calumet pipe and a knife club: Four Claws, Fiske photo, 1906 There is a Four Claws in the list of Standing Rock families in 1885 among the Upper Yanktonais. Maybe it is him?
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Post by kingsleybray on Dec 29, 2016 15:01:56 GMT -5
yes, Dietmar, Four Claws is listed under High Bear's Upper Yanktonai Band in the 1885 Rations List for Standing Rock. According to one of Josephine Waggoner's ms lists, High Bear was a chief in the Takini band of Yanktonai.
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Post by carlo on Jan 1, 2017 10:29:29 GMT -5
Here's another beautiful example
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Post by grahamew on Feb 17, 2017 11:54:56 GMT -5
Here's a drawing from the Sweetwater Ledger collected at Rosebud: An Arikara drawing, circa 1875: Old Dog/Long Time Dog, Hidatsa: Lakota headmen meeting the Jenney Expedition through the Black Hills in 1875. The man the left seems to have a long-handled staff. I don't see any blades on this one, though they could be turned inwards (which wouldn't be my preferred way of holding it!):
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Post by grahamew on Jun 9, 2017 11:06:05 GMT -5
Here's a knife club in Pawnee (I think) hands. The man at the left is Julius Meyer:
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2017 19:43:22 GMT -5
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Post by dT on Jun 14, 2017 18:55:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the photos ... both the weapon and the historical pictures. The historical photos have great signigicance.
There were a wide variety of clubs, including the well known "gunstock club" used by various tribes. the best example of the use of a gunstock club is one of the early scenes in The Last Of The Mohicans. Thats not a Lakota movie, of course.
The knife club does not strike me as a particularly good idea for a battlefield weapon. I think that the normal Lakota weapons were probably a lot more effective. But it is interesting to see that the warriors were constantly trying out new ideas.
Pete (dT)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 10:35:20 GMT -5
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Post by dT on Jun 25, 2017 15:25:42 GMT -5
very nice craftsmanship with those clubs. They are a very lethal and silent weapon.
I used to go to Africa. the young warriors there have a traditional weapon that is very similar. they used to practice with it when they were teenagers ... for hours and hours. they got so good that at a distance of about 40 yards they could knock a small bird out of the branches of a tree. that type of weapon can fo a lot of damage.
dT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2017 13:55:02 GMT -5
I have fashioned a war club with a very nice metamorphic rock found in my yard attached to a long madrone wood handle by "white man rawhide" -- duct tape. It's quite crude and only took me a few minutes to assemble it, but the rock is solidly affixed to the handle and would be a very persuasive weapon in most any hands.
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Post by grahamew on Mar 2, 2018 12:05:26 GMT -5
Going back - way back - to the Moccasin Top club photographed by Elliott and Fry, this would appear to be the same one (well, it has the serpent design - that much I can make out) in an Elliott and Fry studio photo taken during the same Wild West Show visit. Pretty sure it's not Moccasin Top who holds it this time. Anyone have a clearer copy?
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Post by grahamew on Mar 2, 2018 12:20:09 GMT -5
Moccasin Top again? Taken from this: One of two photos taken, I guess, seconds or minutes apart, of Cody's Lakota and Pawnee Indians on Staten Island (1886?). That's Moccasin Top over to the left, near the back. If you look very carefully, you can see what appear to be three blades behind the younger Indian's (the Nelson boy, isn't it?) head. The alternate photo doesn't show the blades, but you can see what I think is the top of the serpent head on the knife club:
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