Sorry, but I ' m not convinced. Maybe Sitting Bull the good was also called Packs-the-Drum. But the man in the 1868 Gardner Photo and the man in the 1875 "Julius Meyer" Photo are two different men. In this case I only trust my eyes.
Post by kingsleybray on Dec 3, 2016 18:21:54 GMT -5
Hi gregor, I didn't express myself very clearly. I too don't think that the man in the 1868 photos looks like the man in 1875. But the answer is not that one is Packs the Drum and the other is Sitting Bull. Packs the Drum and Sitting Bull were two names for one man.
An interesting reference to the use of the knife club as some sort of status symbol rather than as an actual weapon took place at Rosebud in 1886 when the non-progressive Miniconjou leader Wooden Knife and his warriors demanded a share of the goods that the agent was holding back because they refused to make an attempt to – in all essence – live like white people. The story is told in Hyde’s A Sioux Chronicle and by Luther Standing Bear in My People The Sioux. As Standing Bear depicts events, after being given the brush off by Agent Wright, Wooden Knife and his men return to the agency dressed in blankets and singing warrior songs and when their leader confronts the agent, he puts his three-blade club on the ground and stands on it before speaking, as if using it as his symbol of authority.
Wooden Knife’s other headline moment came during the killing of Crazy Horse. He had presumably surrendered some time after Little Bighorn and was living at Camp Sheridan; in fact Hardorff claims he was a Northern Sicangu, associated with Crazy Horse; Standing Bear, however, says he was a ‘black top tipi’ Indian – a Miniconjou, in other words (the same band as (Paul) White Swan). Called Wooden Sword by He Dog (in the Hinman interviews), he was one of the party who walked with Crazy Horse and Little Big Man to the jail. Susan Bordeaux Bettelyoun said that Wooden Knife’s band had been with Crazy Horse, so I’m assuming that means they were associates, at least, but his role on the day of the latter’s death seems open to interpretation. After Crazy Horse reaches the guardhouse, Wooden Knife disappears from the narrative so whether he was there to stop him escape or there to protect him as some sort of emissary of Touch the Clouds and had presumably ridden with them both from Spotted Tail, who knows… I like to think the latter…
I may be wrong, but I think the photos of Amos Wooden Knife that are floating about the Internet, depicting an elderly man in overalls in the 1930s, is of the man born in 1867, an informant for Jospeh G. Masters' book Shadows Fall Across the Little Bighorn, rather than man discussed above.
Last Edit: Dec 4, 2016 10:32:20 GMT -5 by grahamew
In my opinion Grahamew is correct, the He Dog Club is very similar but not the same as Mocasin Top's.
A stone headed club is the insignia of the Akicita Itancan, these have three (usally but not always black) stripes painted on the left cheek (compare to the Big Road roster). origally these were stone headed clubs. The ones with the pipe bags on the roster are wakicunze. the other (one stripe on the cheek) are men performing Akicita duty, it may be just a way to show that all these at some time did their duty to their people.
Concerning the length of some of the knife blade clubs, on horseback they make a lot more sense...in general woodland clubs (of any kind) are shorter (pedestrian warfare) than Plains war clubs (equestrian warfare). stone clubs are to "top-heavy" to be made this long, the butcher knife blades are a lot lighter and make a club of this length possible and a formidable weapon combined with the hight and speed of a horse.
Post by kingsleybray on Dec 8, 2016 11:31:30 GMT -5
the Lakota word for knife clubs is canmilokatanpi. It'd defined in the Fr Buechel Dictionary (1970 ed., p. 121) as "A weapon used for striking by the Lakotas in war, consisting of a wooden handle with two or three knife blades fixed in it towards one end along the center".
Amos Bad Heart Bull's depiction of Lakota akicita shows four mounted and four unmounted warriors. Two carry knife clubs, and two more carry similar shaped clubs but without the knives. Maybe the picture can be uploaded? It's Plate No. 1, on p. 83 of A Pictographic History of the Oglala Sioux.
I notice the Kit Fox leader drawn by Thunder Bear that appears in Walker's Lakota Belief and Ritual has a three-blade knife club attached to his wrist, although the text just refers to it as a war club:
Last Edit: Apr 21, 2018 3:34:35 GMT -5 by grahamew
Post by kingsleybray on Dec 8, 2016 13:43:50 GMT -5
thanks grahamew. The clubs Amos shows without the knife blades, especially the one carried by the mounted akicita, remind me of the 'clubs' carried by White Thunder and Red Shirt in the pictures you posted last week.
Post by kingsleybray on Dec 8, 2016 17:26:04 GMT -5
on p. 77 of THE SIOUX OF THE ROSEBUD by Anderson & Hamilton (Uni. Oklahoma Press, 1971), there's a fine John Anderson photo of a Rosebud Sicangu, White Bear, haranguing while holding a knife club.
At p. 87 of R E Jensen, ed., INDIAN INTERVIEWS OF ELI S. RICKER (Uni. Nebraska Press, 2005) Billy Garnett gives a good description of Sitting Bull the Oglala 'soldiering' the Indians during the 1876 Black Hills council. When White Bird (Spleen band) remonstrated, Sitting Bull "struck him a blow with the back of his knives and hurried him along, at the same time telling all the Indians to 'get out, get out', and he quickly cleared the premises."
The "leadership" thread is fascinating. So many bright minds weighing in! Can anyone help me to identify a name glyph in the Big Road Roster. Ephriam and Kingsley helped me some years ago to identify Elk Robe (father of my protagonist James Stands For Them in upcoming Lakota Cowboy) as a headman appearing in the Sitting Bull Surrender List. As I look at the roster 3rd row, 8th and 10th glyph from left appear to be elk, as does 4th row, 8th from the left. But which one might be the Minniconjou Elk Robe? It would be helpful in telling me a little more about the man.