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Post by windscythe on Sept 17, 2015 5:27:06 GMT -5
 Could someone help me to understand the images on the shield held by Itonagaju above? I am also interested in what colours the images would have been and what the sources of the pigments were. Is there somewhere I could learn about the significance and uses of such shields? |
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Post by ladonna on Sept 17, 2015 8:21:27 GMT -5
yes we know what it means and the colors
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Post by windscythe on Sept 17, 2015 13:57:52 GMT -5
I have so many questions and it is difficult to know where to start. Am I right in thinking Itonagaju and his peers used images to record their thoughts rather than an alphabetical language? If that is right, please correct me if I am wrong, then I am even more interested in understanding what the images on the shield mean. I am cautious about what shields signified to the tribes, I am guessing, but I expect Itonagaju would not have allowed this photograph to be taken whilst holding the shield if it did not have importance to him.
How can I get started in understanding what the images are and mean?
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Post by kingsleybray on Sept 17, 2015 14:11:28 GMT -5
www.welchdakotapapers.com/2011/09/stories-short-biogs-and-photos-r-s-sections-40-individuals/windscythe, click on the link - there is some information on the shield Rain in the Face (Itomagaju) is carrying in your photograph. Col. Welch mentions some of the major symbols employed - Thunderbird, bear paws, buffalo head. To me the shield design looks like a rendering of the Upper World (represented by the Thunder Bird), the Lower World beneath the Earth (where the spirit Buffalo Nation are believed to live), and the living creatures on the Earth's surface (symbolised by the Bear paws). The circle of the shield is a microcosm of the circle of the universe.
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Post by windscythe on Sept 17, 2015 15:29:57 GMT -5
That has got me started, kingsleybray. Many thanks. I am aware the drawing of the shield in the information is quite different from the original. Also, thank you for correcting my spelling of Itomagaju.
Your interpretation of the shield design fits quite closely with what I intuitively thought. However I was totally unaware of the connection between Lower World and the spirit Buffalo Nation. In the original there is a closer symmetry between the tail feather rays of the thunderbird and the horns of the Buffalo. This is lost in the drawing, as are the colours. It is as if the Thunderbird and the Buffalo horns signify a unity. This is not clear in the drawing but evident in the original. Almost as if the spirit of the Buffalo is rising through the flight of the Thunderbird. This is what my intuition is saying to me. This appears to be the focal point. This interaction occurs at the centre of the circle formed by the shield. The paws/claws seem more on the periphery than this central interaction.
Was it usual for the Lakota Sioux to depict the creatures of the Earth's surface as bear claws? Or is this a signpost to a unity of anger from all things against an injustice?
Do you know how old Itomagaju was in the photograph? The link you gave me shows photographs when he was very much younger.
How significant are the colours to an understanding of the image set? And specifically the sources of the various pigments used to produce them. Am I right in my assumption that the Lakota Sioux (please correct me if that is inaccurate) had a largely oral tradition recorded in symbolic (non-alphabetic) language? If this is the case the commentaries by contemporary (?} Americans/Europeans could be little more than a mechanical approximation of a poetic reality.
This limitation is of course one I am subject to... But I am trying to see beyond that
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Post by windscythe on Sept 19, 2015 14:27:28 GMT -5
Have I overstepped a mark?
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Post by windscythe on Sept 21, 2015 22:06:26 GMT -5
yes we know what it means and the colors I struggle with colours. On Itomagaju's shield were the dark areas all one colour/pigment ? Would he have produced his own shield or would someone do it for him? |
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Post by dT on Sept 21, 2015 23:00:29 GMT -5
"Have I overstepped a mark?"
It's possible that you might not receive a reply from the Lakota people, especially in reference to the Thunderbird, or the Thunder Beings. Because those things are sacred symbols in Lakota tradition.
There is an interesting book called "By The Power Of Their Dreams" by Maureen Mansell. It shows a variety of shield designs from the Plains tribes. And it incorporates some poetry and words about visions. The book is not a compilation of sacred beliefs, and it does not give the deeper reasons for why the designs were chosen. But it is still interesting.
dT
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Post by windscythe on Sept 21, 2015 23:39:19 GMT -5
Thank you for the pointer, dT
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Post by gregor on Sept 23, 2015 9:10:08 GMT -5
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Post by windscythe on Sept 23, 2015 15:38:09 GMT -5
"Have I overstepped a mark?" It's possible that you might not receive a reply from the Lakota people, especially in reference to the Thunderbird, or the Thunder Beings. Because those things are sacred symbols in Lakota tradition. There is an interesting book called "By The Power Of Their Dreams" by Maureen Mansell. It shows a variety of shield designs from the Plains tribes. And it incorporates some poetry and words about visions. The book is not a compilation of sacred beliefs, and it does not give the deeper reasons for why the designs were chosen. But it is still interesting. dT Thanks for this. I've ordered MM's book and will see where it takes me |
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Post by windscythe on Sept 23, 2015 15:38:55 GMT -5
Lots to study in these great sources. Thanks for your help, Gregor |
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Post by dT on Sept 23, 2015 15:52:28 GMT -5
"Thanks for this. I've ordered MM's book and will see where it takes me"
The book by MM is not a historical narrative, or an attempt to document "facts" about shields and their interpretations. It is more of a poetic, or cultural, view of Native American shields. You will get a better idea of the significance of a shield to a warrior ... how it became a personal statement.
good luck!
dT
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Post by kingsleybray on Sept 23, 2015 16:24:32 GMT -5
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Post by ladonna on Sept 24, 2015 7:44:31 GMT -5
i did send a message to him (wind) but he did not reply i was going to tell him
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