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Post by seeker on Jun 27, 2014 14:16:14 GMT -5
I'm new here, but I've been fascinated by Native American history for a long time and find myself drawn to Native Americans from the SW United States, specifically Apache.
I apologize in advance if my question/request comes off as being disrespectful, because I want to be clear that I don't intend it to be that way.
I read everything I can get my hands on regarding Apache history including but not limited to Ball, Sweeney, Opler, Goodwin, Basso, etc... and I find that I want to pronounce names and words correctly while reading and even more importantly when talking to someone in person about my interest and the things I've read.
Would it be appropriate for me to start making a list of words, names, etc... here that I want to be able to pronounce correctly and have those of you who know the correct pronunication weigh in?
I would like to see the pronunciations done phonetically if at all possible to help me get in the habit of saying the names correctly.
Just as an example....
Chiricahua (cheer-uh-CAH-wah)
I won't follow through with this unless folks here say it's not disrespectful and are willing to help.
Thank you.
Paul
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Post by dT on Jun 27, 2014 16:50:06 GMT -5
i think various people will help where they can. you have Chiricahua correct :-)
if you just send a list of the words you want, various people here can check off the words they know. plz keep in mind that visits are slow here, and some of our Apache bro's and sisters do not come often.
Pete (dT)
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Post by seeker on Jun 27, 2014 18:10:28 GMT -5
Thank you very much, and I'm fine being patient! I'll start with the few that pop into my head right now... I'm sure there will be plenty more Chihenne Chokonen Bedonkohe Naiche Alchesay Cibecue Juh
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Post by kayitah on Jun 28, 2014 6:45:24 GMT -5
A friendly 'welcome' from me, pauls First, I'm neither Chiricahua nor Native American, I'm not even a U.S. citizen, so if I'd try a phonetical pronounciation it may be a bit off to people with English as their first language. You'll find all the desired pronounciations in these two very interesting documentaries We Shall Remain - GeronimoChihenne / Chokonen / Bedonkohe - 5.08 Juh - 32.25 Naiche - 32.32 Fort Verde: The Indian ScoutsCibecue - 4.06 Alchesay - 6.28
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Post by seeker on Jun 28, 2014 10:22:40 GMT -5
Thank you very much for the welcome and for helping me out with my first set of words/names! While I've read many books, I haven't seen many of the videos and documentaries associated with Apaches and other Native Americans of the SW, so I really appreciate you sharing the names of those two videos - I will be spending some time in the next week watching them and more as I can find them! The history of the Apache is just so fascinating. One of the things I regret is that I didn't get interested in the history much earlier in life when it was less dangerous to hike and explore the mountains in southern New Mexico and Arizona to experience the area where so much happened. Today so much of it is "ruled" but drug cartels that it generally would not be smart to visit them . Thanks again, and I'm certain I will have more questions. As a matter of fact, if there are more documentaries that you consider to be well done and accurate, please feel free to share them here too. Thanks again, Paul
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Post by dT on Jun 28, 2014 19:15:36 GMT -5
Paul - I have not had any problems in the mtns of southern Arizona. Use common sense and you are usually fine. I would not venture down into the areas within 20-30 miles of the border, but other classic Apache areas have been fine. Needless to say, northern Mexico is a No-No.
Pete (dT)
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Post by kayitah on Jun 29, 2014 11:22:01 GMT -5
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Post by Mithlo on Jun 29, 2014 23:19:58 GMT -5
"Cheer-Uh-Cah-Wah" or just "Cheer-Cah-Wah"(The way it sounds out)......Welcome Pauls!!!!. Chiricahua Fort Sill Apache here! G.T.Mithlo.
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Post by dT on Jun 30, 2014 10:19:09 GMT -5
welcome back Mithlo. Have not seen you on this forum for a long time. I hope things are well with you!
Pete (dT)
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Post by seeker on Jun 30, 2014 21:05:09 GMT -5
Thank you again to everyone who has responded. Here is what I have so far - please let me know if any of them sound wrong:
Chiricahua: cheer-uh-CAH-wah (or just cheer-CAH-wah)
Chihenne: chi-HEN-ay
Chokonen: cho-CONE-en
Bedonkohe: be-DONK-uh-hay
Nehdni: NED-en-eye
Naiche: NYE-chee
Alchesay: AL-chuh-say
Cibecue: SIB-uh-cue
Juh: HO
It may seem odd that I want to know the pronunciation, but it doesn't feel right to me to read the stories and not be saying the correct names even if it's just in my head - it just seems disrespectful.
Any corrections to the above?
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Post by kayitah on Jul 1, 2014 8:16:17 GMT -5
Seems fine I'd spell three of them slightly different if I had to write them phonetically, it's practically negligible, though: Bedonkohe - Be-DON-ke-hay or Be-DON-ku-hay Nednai/Nednhi - NED-nye or NED-nee (I've heard both variants - the latter's ending sounds like in English 'knee') Juh is sometimes pronounced the way you have it (Ho) and sometimes it's Hoo (like in English 'who') Cibecue - SI-buh-cue -> from Grenville Goodwin's 'The Social Organization of the Western Apache': "The Cibecue Valley is called dè-stcì-bìkò' which means "horizontally red canyon", alluding to red sandstone bluffs along its sides, and, when designating all the people living there, local Apache say dè-stcì-bìkò'ndé' (horizonally red canyon people)"
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Post by dT on Jul 1, 2014 9:43:49 GMT -5
I agree with what you've both said ... but my opinion is less important than a native speaker :-) still hoping one of the Apaches here will confirm. all the best to you.
Pete (dT)
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Post by seeker on Jul 1, 2014 20:03:31 GMT -5
kayitah - thank you! I'm not terribly good at doing phonetics, and after looking at your suggestions, I would have to say I agree with all of them. In my mind I always pronounced Nehdni by your 2nd pronunciation (NED-nee), so I'm glad to hear that's one variant!
It surprises me that Juh would be pronounced two such different ways - I wonder why that is?
I haven't had time to add to my list, but rest assured I will sometime soon and continue popping back on here now and then to see if some Native speakers give me their thoughts!
Paul
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Post by seeker on Jul 2, 2014 9:39:09 GMT -5
How about a couple (seemingly) easy ones?
Nana: (NAY-nah) or (NA-nah with the A as in cAt) or ?
Taza: (TAY-zah) or (TA-zah with the A as in cAt) or (TA-zay with the A as in cAt) or ?
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Post by dT on Jul 3, 2014 15:32:11 GMT -5
just Na-Nah and Ta-zah.
Pete (dT)
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