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Post by hreinn on May 23, 2022 15:24:20 GMT -5
If Slow Bull was born among Bad Face (Oglala) and his wife Comes Out was born among Wagleza Owin (Mnikhówozu). It would be interesting to learn about her Wagleza Owin roots, i.e. her Wakpokiyan (Mnikhówozu) and Oyuhpe/Hunkpatila (Oglala) roots. Even to see to which wicoti among Wakpokiyan and Hunkpatila her parents/grandparents belonged to.
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Post by kingsleybray on May 23, 2022 16:37:52 GMT -5
The Slow Bull family history demonstrates the way family and tiyospaye identities re-emerged across the generations. There may be a little more detail to adduce, but the way I understand it now is that the paternal great-grandfather of Slow Bull (born c. 1823) was a man named Black Day Coming, born probably in the 1720s. he belonged to the Oyuhpe band of the Oglala oyate. The Oyuhpe had emerged as a distinct tiyospaye in 1710, when they divided from the Hunkpatila. Families from other tiyospaye (notably the Wablenica band of ancestral Sicangu) also went into the Oyuhpe formation.
Black Day Coming is known to have led a war party against the "Pawnee" (or Arikara?) in 1752. He married into the Miniconjou oyate, and went to live with that tribal division. I don't know whether he went by himself, or whether he went in the year 1767 -- when the whole Oyuhpe band realigned from the Oglala to the Miniconjou, with whom they mostly lived until 1835.
Anyway, Black Day Coming's son was Bull Appearing, Tatanka Hinape. I think we can equate him with the man mentioned in the Edmond Meany 1907 interview with Slow Bull's son and namesake - the man who had a vision of the buffalo and had the sacred buffalo calling tipi made.
Bull Appearing's son was Slow Bull, the father of the chief born in 1823. To judge from the Meany interview he may have had the second name Smoke.There was a relationship to the Oglala chief Smoke (1789-1864) of some sort of cousin, tahansi, nature, but I don't know exactly how it worked.
Then Slow Bull the chief whose photograph was taken at Ft Laramie was born c. 1823. Three years later,in 1826, his father and namesake was one of the leading men who formed a new tiyospaye of Miniconjou, the Waglezaowin. They were largely composed of Wakpokiyan and Oyuhpe people. Their chief was Little Crow. The High Backbone family were also prominent. The Slow Bull family must have been ritualists and buffalo dreamers prominent in the tiyospaye and before 1826 in its antecedents.
By the 1860s 'our' Slow Bull was a prominent man, a wakicunze in Waglezaowin. At that time the main band chief or Wicasa Itancan was Flying By. High Backbone, the friend and mentor of Crazy Horse, was the leading akicita.
In 1872 Slow Bull was the leader of a camp of Miniconjou (people drawn from several bands) which chose to settle with the Oglala at Red Cloud Agency No. 1. Over time the core of the band assimilated into -- or back into -- the Oyuhpe band.
I don't know anything about Slow Bull's wife or her family background at this stage.
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Post by hreinn on May 24, 2022 18:59:50 GMT -5
Thanks Kingsley As often, things are more complicated than expected. Remarkable to see all the details regarding Slow Bull's paternal lineage and formation and structure of Wagleza Owin tiyoshpaye. OK. so Smoke mentioned in the Meany interview with Slow Bull is not the "famous" Smoke from Bad Face tiyoshpaye. I was inclined to think so, because some (not all) information in the Meany interview was same/similar to information which Wendyll Smoke gave regarding his ancestor Solomon Smoke. Information by Wendyll Smoke which fit with the Meany interview with Slow Bull (aka. Smoke): a) Solomon Smoke got his name from his father Smoke (just as the 3 generations of Slow Bull) b) Solomon Smoke's father was also known as Slow Bull (just as the 3 generations of Slow Bull) c) Solomon Smoke's mother name was Comes Out Slow Woman (vs. Comes Out in Meany interview) d) Solomon Smoke married a Mnikhówozu woman (which would have been a fit, if Slow Bull was of Bad Face origin) Information by Wendyll Smoke which DOES NOT fit with the Meany interview with Slow Bull (aka. Smoke): a) Solomon Smoke was born ca. 1835 (but not ca. 1823 as Slow Bull 2 (aka. Smoke 3) nor ca. 1844 as Slow Bull 3 (aka. Smoke 4)) b) Solomon Smoke was also known as Bad Face (but not Slow Bull) That Flying By was Wicasa Itancan among Wagleza Owin tiyoshpaye, indicates that the Wakpokiyan thread in Wagleza Owin came (partly/mainly ?) from Tahuka wicoti among Wakpokyian tiyoshpaye. Because as you informed us earlier, Lame Deer belonged to Tahuka wicoti and Lame Deer and the older Flying By and namesake of Lame Deer's son were related. It is interesting to see a glimpse of a possible relation between Lame Deer and High Backbone. Regarding the split of Oyuhpe from Hunkpatila, I wonder if that happened by splitting of one or more wicoti or if one or more wicoti went away as a whole.
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Post by hreinn on May 26, 2022 8:22:13 GMT -5
There are several possible threads of origin among Wagleza Owin tiyoshpaye. | Oyate | Tiyoshpaye | Wicoti | Example | A | Mnikhówozu | Wakpokiyan | Tahuka | Flying By ? | B | Mnikhówozu | Wakpokiyan | ? | | C | Mnikhówozu | ? | ? | | D | Oglala | Oyuhpe (from Hunkpatila) | ? | Slow Bull 2 (father side) | E | Oglala | Oyuhpe (from Sichangu) | ? | | F | other | ? | ? | |
It would be interesting to learn about the origin of other people among Wagleza Owin.
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Post by hreinn on May 26, 2022 8:34:59 GMT -5
Is it known how many lodges Wagleza Owin consisted of ? Yes I know, it was not a fixed number through out the time.
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Post by hreinn on May 27, 2022 14:56:52 GMT -5
Was Ashke (wicoti ? or tiyoshpaye ?) part of the history of Wagleza Owin tiyoshpaye ? Victor Douville (conversation with KMB, May 11, 2001) stated that "part of the Orphans derived from the [Brule] Kiyuksa" band. This perhaps means a cohort (males or females) marrying in. Also the Orphans and the Wazhazhas (Conquering Bear's band) were "always together", so it is believed they are sister bands budded from a parent group. Indeed the Ashke according to Victor were originally derived from some Wazhazhas (a band formed from Lakotas marrying Poncas) who joined the Northern Tetons at some point late in the 1700s. Then a generation or two later many Ashke families shifted back into the Brule circle - as I described above. In a later conversation (June 18, 2001) Victor stated that Iron Shell held the "primary leadership" of the Orphans and "part of the Wazhazha". The Slow Bull family history demonstrates the way family and tiyospaye identities re-emerged across the generations. There may be a little more detail to adduce, but the way I understand it now is that the paternal great-grandfather of Slow Bull (born c. 1823) was a man named Black Day Coming, born probably in the 1720s. he belonged to the Oyuhpe band of the Oglala oyate. The Oyuhpe had emerged as a distinct tiyospaye in 1710, when they divided from the Hunkpatila. Families from other tiyospaye (notably the Wablenica band of ancestral Sicangu) also went into the Oyuhpe formation.
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