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Post by kingsleybray on Apr 12, 2014 3:32:02 GMT -5
that is an interesting idea, hreinn. I'll give it some thought.
It's worth noting that according to Eagle Elk, the name Oyuhpe was coined at a great Da/Lakota gathering, probably the spring trade fair, when the ancestral Oglala acquired the Strong Heart dance/society from the Yankton. I believe this to be an event of the 1730s. But there we have the Oglala-Yankton-Oyuhpe connection. Something to think about
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Post by kingsleybray on Apr 12, 2014 3:39:04 GMT -5
Such paring of names would indicate a friendly, rather than unfriendly budding. Because if budding was due to some conflicts, then it is likely that the budding-off group would like to distance itself from the parent group. And would therefore most likely choose a name which has no reference or resemblance to the parent group.
Read more: amertribes.proboards.com/thread/2046/ouiatspouitons-pierre-charles-le-sueur#ixzz2yew9uQ5NJust a quick observation - about "choosing" names: most, not all perhaps, but a lot of band names are in the nature of nicknames, applied to a group by some other group or groups. And often of a satirical nature. Good example - Sichangu, Burnt Thigh: it was given to the Middle Village band after a great prairie fire in 1762, apparently the name was coined by the Oglalas. Middle Village for a long time disliked the name and resisted it.
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Post by kingsleybray on Apr 12, 2014 4:02:30 GMT -5
Over time a satirical nickname might come to be accepted by the group to whom it was applied. Sichangu, Burnt Thigh/Brule, is again a good example.
Or a nickname might be re-interpreted over time to have a positive connotation. The best example is Itazipcho, Without Bows/Sans Arcs. I think the name was coined in 1759 when the Red Water band 9their original name) gathered for a ceremony. The holy men advised the warriors to put their bows aside on a nearby hill while the ceremony was held. The Arikaras attacked and drove the people in panic flight. The other Lakotas gave them a new nickname - Itazipcho.
Ok, there's another story which gives a positive spin. The Lakotas had a terrible time when the bands quarrelled and came to fighting each other. I think this is consistent with traditions of a 'civil war' late in the 1760s. At last a council was called for all the Lakotas to patch up the quarrels. Everyone came armed to the teeth, except the Itazipcho - who as keepers of the Calf Pipe are the peacemakers of the Lakota - who came to council without weapons. So now the name got a positive spin. This is also a great example of how names got re-confirmed, or renewed.
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Post by hreinn on Apr 17, 2014 7:09:20 GMT -5
Yes. One twist of the "hill story" is that it was a winkte who recommended they put their bows aside on a nearby hill.
Still another story for the Sans Arc name is the story that the name was supposed to mean "no markings". Referring to that the Sans Arcs supposidly did not mark their arrows. So when hunting buffalos, the animals were not linked to a certain hunter. But the hunted buffalo belonged to the whole and shared. And because of this willingness to share, they were given the Sacred Pipe (Calf Pipe).
I would not be surprised if there are more stories known for the Sans Arc name. Similar to many different versions of stories for the names Bad Face and Oglala.
All these stories can't be the reason for the given name(s). So if one story is not correct. Why not all ?
We have gone through a similar discussions in my society. Where we have stories behind given names, which were written down from oral history several centuries after the stories supposedly happened. For centuries, these stories were accepted almost as the holy truth and were part of the cornerstone of our culture. But when examined and reasons found which almost exclude the orignal story, or make it highly unlikely. And at the same time, being able to point to a logical reason or reasons behind the given names. Then these stories have fallen from their status. And the more logical reason(s) accepted to be the correct one.
So based on experience from my society. I dismiss all these interesting stories to be the reason for the above mentioned given names and go for a logical reason(s) behind the given names. In the Skokpa - Sans Arc case, I go for a linguistic explanation of the given names. Where Skokpa means "bent like a bow" and Sans Arc means "not bows". Referring to the split of these 2 groups. Which most likely was a friendly split. Where the group who budded off, wanted to relate itself to the original group. But at the same time did not want to have exactly the same name as the original group. And perhaps at the same time wanted to emphasize that they were different or had opposite manner(s) than the original group. But still wanted to related itself to the good name the original group had. The same applies more or less, if we take into consideration that the name(s) could have been given as a nickname(s) by other Lakota group(s).
Hreinn
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Post by kingsleybray on Jan 23, 2015 18:41:26 GMT -5
An Oglala friend to whom I showed Le Sueur's village name - "Ouiatspouitons" - recognized its Lakota form as Oyate-yushpuya-ton, and said it means Broken Off nation. He also said it is an alternate name for the Kiyuksa band. "Broken off or bites in two. Meaning as an idiom -- Bite their relatives in two by inter-marrying".
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